The Summary

In the last episode of the special 10 part series The Next Chapter – Lynsey is joined by Funnel and conversion marketing expert Zane Bačić talking all thing funnels and conversion strategies for service based businesses. Zane discuss the key aspects to creating profitable funnels and share some of his experience creating multi million dollar funnels as well as what’s working in 2020 and what has changed since the pandemic.

The Guest

Zane Bacic is the Founder and Head of Growth at Maverick Agency. Zane is a sales psychology and business growth specialist and an expert at sales funnel design. Using what he calls the Maverick Method, zane has built a strategy that is producing record breaking growth for his clients.

The Episode

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The Transcript

Lynsey  (00:07):

So welcome back. And this is actually the last episode. This is the last out of our, we’ve done this special 10 part series where we spoken to international marketing experts from all corners of the globe around what happens in this next chapter. And so we’re rounding this one out with the man himself, and I’m going to mispronounce your second night. So I’m just gonna let you do this. Cause I’m like, if we’ve got buy this in the series by now, guys, I’m horrible at introducing guests and pronouncing names. And so rather than offending people, I’m just gonna let them do the whole thing. But I have Zane here and Zeno’s, I would just call I’m just to saying, is mr. Funnels. I am a phenomenal digital marketer, but this guy has literally made millions and millions and millions of dollars through the funnels and the tech and the understand that he’s got this particular aspect of marketing, a talented marketer across all different fields, but like when it comes to funnels and knowing how funnels work and getting funnels to work for businesses, Zane is the man.

Lynsey  (02:32):

And so between his knowledge of these things on his own agency, Maverick marketing. Yup. Yup. I’ll go see, I got some stuff, right. But not really marketing. He absolutely just owns this space and owns this field. So I’m super excited to have Zane onboard because I like it’s been great having all these different conversations with people. This is an area I will put my hand up, admit this is an area of marketing that my knowledge is like, yay. I get Facebook ad funnels, but move me outside of that platform. And I honestly, I get a bit lost with it. So I’m super excited to have Zane onboard. Zane, why don’t you introduce yourself far better than I’ve just done and give everybody a bit of an understanding of sort of your background in the industry and what you, what you do so well with funds.

Zane (03:19):

Uh, if I can introduce myself, it was pretty good. Yeah. Uh, first of all, last time budge I’m Croatian. So Zane budget. Um, yeah, so you’re totally right. I mean, I’ve spent the last several years really deep into the art and science of building conversion systems like sales processes and sales funnels talking about step-by-step, um, journeys that customer’s going to go ahead and start getting introduced to a brand all the way through to purchasing and becoming sign on board as clients. And we work with a lot of service businesses, a lot of my inservices. So, um, you know, I’m sure a lot of people listening to this podcast apparently are either themselves a service business or they’re working with them. And, um, yeah, we do every day, we, we help service businesses get more clients predictably through online ads, uh, bicycle, future, uh, Googled spite. And, um, can we build sales processes? I’ve done that for a bunch of different clients. And um, if that’s what you want to talk about today, I can actually,

Lynsey  (04:31):

I like that it humbles. And it’s like Zane literally made people millions and millions of dollars through the funnels and the systems he said it was like, yeah, you know, I told a few funnels, I built a few things, but I’m like, dude, you’re really good at this stuff. All right. So I’m going to, I’m going to jump into this. And so obviously online habits because of the pandemic, because of restrictions and different of online habits changed, we know that usage on the Facebook platform went up. We know that people spend longer in terms of search or the spending longer times online. So digital behavior started to change. Consumer behavior started to change. What kind of happened in terms of the worlds is like sales processes and conversion processes and funnels. Did the pandemic have a big impact on them or have they sort of been quite business as usual, quite robust and there haven’t been many changes.

Zane (05:19):

Yeah. Well, I guess when you look at a sales funnel, when you think about it from the very, from the initial ads in the platform, all the way through to the conversions on each separate step of that process. Um, so you’re totally right. Like more people are sitting at home, you know, in front of a computer or on their phones. Um, and so what that means is that CVMS change. So, uh, Costco reaching a thousand people, right? Um, those things vary any, any given month, but that’s the biggest, like let’s call it an environmental factor when it comes to your results because the lower those are. And hopefully if all else remains the same, like your ads are just as good as they were before Covid or for, you know, whatever your click through rate was, if it remains the same, I’m paying less to reach more people is always going to be a good thing.

Zane (06:11):

Cause then your cost per click will go down and then you would get more leads. And so we have found that to be true or businesses that I will call like coded proof or if there’s even, like, I’d say there’s three categories here. There’s businesses that have been hit quite hot with carpet there’s businesses that are kind of just like, this is business as usual for me, it doesn’t really affect me this way or that not call that properly coded proof. And then weirdly there are businesses that have just, you know, had a great time in this otherwise, you know, really bad time. Um, and I don’t know what I would call that

Lynsey  (06:45):


Zane (06:49):

So, yeah. And it’s had a, had an effect, you know, particularly on the outside of things, um, in terms of conversions, I mean, yeah. I would say that that would depend on what type of business you are and which one of those three categories you fall into.

Lynsey  (07:04):

Yeah. And so with all this, so people, the cost, obviously the front end cost of advertising has gotten cheaper. Has consumer behavior changed when it comes to actually getting them through the steps of the funnel? Or is that just really dependent on, like, if I give you an example, you know, our webinars, because people are spending more time at home, are people engaging more with things like webinars because they’re spending longer in front of their screens. So we’re seeing funnels that contain webinars to work better or are people, you know, doing more research and that funnels now need more sets. Have there been any changes to the mechanisms within funnels or are you still seeing what kind of stood before still stands now it’s just the business that’s, you know, that might have changed or impacted.

Zane (07:50):

Yeah. I mean, when we look at, you look at conversion right here, right? So it comes at the, well you have to consider is the intent of the person opting into the sales funnel as an example. So if before we were reaching less people, but those that were actually opting in within immediately watching the webinar, that makes sense. Cause they all did it for that reason now because we’re getting more people into the sales funnels then yeah. We have more people attending the webinar and perhaps, you know, there’s some more time to be able to sit through and watch the entire things. We may see an uptick on the amount of people sitting through those things. Um, but ultimately I don’t think that the numbers have shifted like using a dramatic, I think the biggest impact has been on the ad side of things. Um, but yeah, I mean, people are spending more time at home.

Zane (08:37):

You got to think that, uh, that does play a part to someone’s grave, but for many, the most important thing has always been what’s on the web at home. You know, what’s the author that, that happens at the end of the webinar and come to think about what’s the entire like strategy behind the entire campaign is that sound and solvent. And I’m sure there are ways that you can embed COVID, uh, proof for covered beneficial parts to campaign and use certain strategies that are covert proof. Um, you know, I know that a lot of businesses that have had home visits or have that traditionally in person presentations have shifted over to things like by laws or online consultations as an example. So no doubt people are more comfortable with those types of things now than I think they’ve ever been before. I mean, everybody knows about zoom I’ve worked before. I would have to explain

Lynsey  (09:34):


Zane (09:35):

Zoom, you know? And so I’ve seen that and I believe I don’t have the numbers to be able to show, you know, that’s kinda like what sometimes people look for.

Lynsey  (09:44):

Oh, I think, I think we can all agree. Like definitely you and I both work in digital marketing world. We’re so used to doing consults on zoom because we can work with clients anywhere. And I know you do an idea. We have clients not in this country or in these times zones. And we worked with them, not sure zoom, and it’s gotten easier for us in terms of people understanding what we do and how we work because everybody gets to the zoom call now. And you know, that’s not such a barrier. So I think everybody’s seen a change in working habits and those sort of conference style meetings. And so you would say that marketers now are including aspects of those. So taking that, you know, if it was a person to person call taking that out of the funnel and just replacing it with, you know, the sort of you say, this could covert proof tactics of like, we can be on a zoom call instead, and people are more forgiving of that.

Zane (10:29):

Totally. Yeah. And it’s great if you like working from home and if you like, um, you know, having that location type of independence as well. I think a lot of, a lot of, uh, other than that spaces is really just blowing up. That’s, that’s your example of like, COVID, you know, lucky COVID type of industry or like even Coby type of business. Um, but yeah, that’s actually, what has really well covered has really done the impact that it’s had for me. And that I’ve seen has been on a personal level, you know, within the business that I run as well within the clients that you know, where we’re looking to get, how we’re speaking to it. Um, you know, for clients, we’ve had some clients and I know a lot of people listening, either working in digital marketing, that’s, you know, any independent person with, with clients of their own or maybe they work internally.

Zane (11:22):

And whichever one, you know, I’m just giving you my perspective as someone who runs a digital marketing agency. Uh, yeah, I’ve seen some clients I’ve just been hit quite hard. And the challenge was a lot on the, on the positioning of the sales and the marketing side of things. So they’re, they wanted to know what do I say to get new clients and new customers right now? Um, even though everyone is someone says, and everyone is just like trying to hold on to whatever toppled, uh, you know, financial security that they want to have and then maybe adverse to taking a big risk right now, just signing. And then through like helping my clients work out, um, how to navigate that objection will that bridge that has, um, really kind of made Cobia almost a, um, a non factor. And I feel like things are dying time dying down a little bit now.

Lynsey  (12:18):

Yeah, absolutely.

Zane (12:19):

Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s been a crazy time right now, but I don’t know, call me crazy. I feel like we’re at the tail end of it. You know, like, yeah, this is a, this is the end of it going to me and this is the second way,

Lynsey  (12:32):

But do you know what I, I would agree with you in that sense that even if there was a second wave, we are seeing second waves and, you know, pockets around the world. We’ve advanced so much in terms of how we’re doing business and that we’re kind of used to it now. And if we got locked down again, it would be, you know, it’s unfortunate, you know, a lot of people in Victoria are feeling this, but we’ve already, we’ve already taken that head of look to how we do business and how we talk to clients and, and those things that it wouldn’t be such a big shock or a big sort of upheaval now, because we’ve sort of already been through it before. And, you know, as long as they release a second, like series of tiger King or something along those lines, I think we’ll get through it. I think we’ll be fine.

Zane (13:11):

Totally, totally. And I think there’s a lot of lessons that have been gleaned from an autologous and a lot of change. And like we talked about everybody’s shifting online. Um,

Lynsey  (13:22):

What are some of the lessons, do you think that, you know, marketers should take out of this period or that you would personally take out of this period?

Zane (13:30):

Yeah. So, um, what I’ve personally learned is how to do business in an uncertain environment. I feel like we’ve been through like the forge, um, you know, right now it’s come out stronger. Um, yeah, so like, it would be how to handle that, uh, speaking to somebody and allowing them to see the positive outlook, uh, to, you know, taking that risk or something, you know, starting that digital marketing kind of thing now. And appointing, not allowing something like this to completely shift that mindset, um, away from growth, because at the end of the day, that’s what we want, right. Where we still want to grow inspired. Um, that has been the big thing. And like personally, um, you know, making sure that I retain that mindset, uh, has been one of the key personal lessons or experiences, I guess that I’ll take with me. Um, but yeah, like I think for, for marketers in general, I do feel as though we have somewhat of a cognitive proof type of, of, uh, skillset.

Zane (14:39):

Um, what’s interesting is like, uh, we’ve actually just started working with, um, I idea, which is the Australian Institute for digital marketing, their business, that kind of certifies, um, Marcus. Yep. And, uh, you know, through creating this, I was approached to doing some research in the market or what what’s the digital marketing market actually look like right now. And then, you know, Google trends, just some, some early stage research, digital marketing is like, instead of being more searched, you know, before, it’s just kind of, if you look at it even over, like, let’s say the past 10 years, um, it’s just doubled and doubled and doubled every couple of years in terms of businesses that are out there searching for this and, and, and looking for help. So, um, I feel fortunate in that way. And that’s another thing that I had taken with me.

Zane (15:28):

It’s like a little bit of like, Oh, okay. You know, this is, you know, I made a good decision field students specialize in, but like, you know, that, that is a fortunate decision. Um, yeah. So there’s a bit of that as well. Uh, strategies. Yeah. It’s just more resilience, you know, for our clients and knowing how to deal with that themselves. Um, and then also not being afraid to, you know, push the pedal on continuing to run marketing. Can you run ads? Um, don’t see this as opportunity just to stop. Uh, that’s been one thing that a lot of them have gone through. Um, and then tactically, um, you know, there’s sometimes like certain things on the consumer end, like safety, uh, is of higher importance than necessarily opportunity, uh, for some industries. So you may shift around your benefits in your copy, you know, your sales, person’s going to ads, those things. I’m sure. Um, you know, I’ll working a little better right now, but that’s always subject to change.

Lynsey  (16:26):

So just cause this, as I say, this is a world that absolutely fascinates me because it’s, again, it’s the things that I’m not good at. I’m just like, tell me more, cause I don’t get it. What’s your sort of approach. I mean, you work mostly with service businesses and it does amaze me how many e-commerce businesses, like in FOS moving low value product, consumer goods. Like I need a funnel I’m like, you need to sell your product, but with a service based business, like, is there sort of like a real kind of key winning strategy or is there a sort of a key approach that you take with the service business? And can you kind of just give us a bit of an insight to what that process looks like?

Zane (17:02):

Yeah. So I, my agency is only about two years old at this point. And so the thing is that over the course of the two years we did at the very beginning was we, we sat down, we’re like, who do we really, really want to help? And it was service businesses that have an, a, a, an expertise element to it. So they are experts at what they do, and they provide it as a service for other people. And, and, you know, they have to fit on Facebook, YouTube, or Google display. That’s what we said. So, um, the reason why is because we like doing direct response type of sales phones, we want to be able to buy traffic, send them through a process, completely cold traffic and have qualified leads, come out, gotta run predictably and have those leads, close disciples. We wanted to handle that and turn it into a process, the system, and more like a service that was like very guaranteed and very replicatable for clients that we specifically know we can help.

Zane (18:04):

I guess, a lot of businesses fall into like expertise services. And you’ve got like coaches, agencies, consultants, financial advisors, it’s like all those different types of expertise. So, um, so what we do is we just turned it into a process like there’s certain, there’s certain types of funnels that work really well. Um, and they have always worked really well. And that’s one of the cool things we do when we first started working with a client. So we know that for example, a free lead magnet as the first offer just works really well. And that as like an evil or a guy or some sort of giveaway, like you should be getting at least 35% conversion rate on that page, 50% maybe. And so that’s top level leads, tick, you know, sold for the client. So as soon as they get that, we need a way to get clients started, because the idea is that free call that lead magnet when they, when somebody downloads that, then we should know that they’re probably a good potential lead or good potential fit for our business because that’s what the book is designed to do entry point.

Zane (19:11):

So the very next step off of that entry point is an opportunity to have a personal session with our client in some way, as a promise and a very specific goal attached to that session to make it highly valuable. So we want like 10% conversion rate at least, but hopefully 20, we’re getting about 55, 24 an idea, which is the climate mission for awesome. Yeah. And at that point, that’s qualified leads coming in. We ask a bunch of questions that client takes those leads and then builds out a sales process behind it. So eventually someone else can handle those leads, qualify them further. We’ll get everyone onto a personal session, or maybe we’ll to a group of a session zoom, which people are most comfortable with now. And then the client gets consistent clients of their own customers. So that’s like the whole funnel that we found is just kind of like it’s cool process offers in the process are different for every different type of business.

Zane (20:09):

Right. That, that process is something that we’ve just done again and again and again and again, and refine, refine, um, until we’ve got this great little packaged service that it’s priced really well, and then we scale it, right. And then it’s going to wear out right now. Right. But the cost of scaling this entire, and it’s taken two years to build out really, really clean processes, um, may the last month coded, you know, but we’ve had the biggest month ever, uh, within the agency, um, you know, three times more revenue than we had ever before.

Speaker 3 (20:42):

Congratulations. That’s awesome.

Zane (20:46):

Um, yeah, no, no, it’s not necessarily a bad time to be in business. Right. And then additional law as well. So that’s kind of what we do. And that process might vary a little bit from client to client and we’ve got to be creating more improving more processes. So that’s, that’s one thing that’s worked really well. Um, yeah, it just comes down. We’ll get you out there trying to get clients. Um, it just comes down to, uh, either having a really great service that you’ve just refined, you know, you can delete wrong. So therefore you can almost actually promise something, you know, some sort of guarantee on that service that adds security, that’s going to get your clients for sure. So there’s no short cuts of that. Yep. Fair enough. Another thing that that’s really worth is creating human situations. Um, you know, we do a performance sides of the business development. We just generate leads. We build our own funnels for ourselves, um, in different industries, right? So like, you know, for example, let’s say it’s coaching, we have our own coaching based Facebook ads funnel that we can run generate leads and pass them off to somebody else who can go ahead and serve as those leads. So that’s another tactic that works really well right now. Um, because the conversations was like, Hey, do you want more leads? And they’re like, yes,

Lynsey  (22:04):

Everybody wants more late. Is there anything that’s, is there anything that you’ve, you’ve tested and you’ve seen that you just go, you know, what that used to work with that. So over hyped for that just does not work any more. Like, is there anything in terms of the lead magnet in terms of the offer or the way that we’re looking at landing pages or bringing people into these funnels that, you know, maybe still has this sort of hyper for this remnants? Or is there anything that’s not working or you think that marketers should sort of avoid now?

Zane (22:32):

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, I’ve about two things. One of them is going to talk a little bit about what we said before. Um, one of them is going to be about webinars. Um, and one of them is gonna be about strategy sessions, discovery, types of sessions, strategy sessions, strategy sessions. I’ve been overused. I feel personally like to the shit house that just been there. Everyone has a strategy session of some sort or discovery session or something calling it something else doesn’t make it valuable. Right. Um, but if you can attach a specific outcome to those sessions, uh, then that can be inherently valuable. So it doesn’t matter what you call it, or, you know what it is at the end of the day, it’s a sales session to sales opportunity. But think about your sales process. Like if, like, for example, I’ll give you an example of what we do as a, as an agency, we build sales processes, right?

Zane (23:39):

We build sales funnels. So the very first step before someone, um, you know, actually signs up as a client, they didn’t map out their funnel. So our free strategy session is actually a funnel mapping session where we actually sit down and we mapped that out for them on a personal level. And it’s beyond a script, you know, that you kind of just run through piece by piece. It’s not that there’s a personal element to it, but the outcome that they get at the end of that session just blows them away. And it makes it crystal clear of the benefit they’re going to get by actually signing up as a client. Yeah, yup. Now I’m not going to do a funnel mapping session cause I take more than an hour. I’m not going to do them for everyone, but if they’re qualified, then I’ll do them.

Zane (24:24):

So I’m not doing a ton of unqualified, just general strategy sessions, trying to sign clients. I’m offering a highly tailored benefit, driven outcome driven session, but you’ll have to qualify to get it. And so you may speak to somebody else who will find out if you’re a right fit, but if you are a right fit, then you’re going to get that and it’s tangible and there’s something to walk away with. And it’s just a more genuine approach to, to signing clients. That’s one thing that I’m doing that I would see if you can shift, um, if it’s not working for you, I dunno, you know, perhaps you just write it sales and it’s just, you’re an absolute gun. Um, the other thing is webinars. Uh, I do love a good button at all. Uh, if you can pull it off, you know, and the thing is like webinars have kind of like risen in popularity.

Zane (25:19):

I’d say, you know, over the last year and a half maybe, or maybe even a bit longer than that. Um, yeah. And, and the thing is people have kind of come to expect to be, uh, sold something on a webinar. So I know a lot of people think that the webinars that going be this automated hack, um, you know, to get clients or to get people signed up, to get ’em results, right. Leads, um, the business and can be, um, you know, I’m talking about there’s really long webinars, but, uh, what we find is, you know, that there’s increased drop off rates on webinars. People are kind of, they’ve, they’ve come to expect a certain thing on webinars. Um, and it’s hard to pull off, like to get, to maintain engagement over like an hour and a half and an online forum.

Lynsey  (26:12):

I think consumers get a lot smarter with webinars. So I think we start to smell, okay, this person’s now giving me all the sales pitch. They haven’t gotten to the point yet. And we’re 15 minutes in and they still haven’t told us anything. And yeah.

Zane (26:24):

Yeah. And especially these automated webinars of doing automated webinars and trying to not stop doing one of my webinars stopped doing automated webinars that are made to look like real, you know, like those ones, I just

Lynsey  (26:40):

It’s like, why do you bother? It’s like, dude, I’m just watching video now. It’s not a webinar. It’s a video stop putting people’s comments in just cause you can do that. Yeah. Like I think some of that stuff, consumers do get a lot smarter too.

Zane (26:52):

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, like whoever has a great as a tool, um, we found more success in shorter webinars, um, that are 40 to 45 as long as, you know, on the high end even, and the, the cold tractional there’s that, but also it’s always been, Hey, if this sounds like it’s something for you, find out if you qualify for a real actionable first step in the form of a session, um, what we do going to get this specific outcome and at the end. So it’s about moving away from what our product or service is because everyone’s just really trying to sell their product or service right now, um, to just figuring out how can I genuinely help someone as a first step and as the outcome that they will really, really just want to go ahead and become my client.

Zane (27:44):

Right. Um, what can that be? And then how can I package that and just sell that instead and make it free for anyone who’s just going to be a great fit for you and make sure you ask them everything you need to know about them. So you can know if they’re gonna be a great fit for you. You’re just a waste of time. Um, and anywhere else, you know, just, just on that, that, that’s what we found is what most consistently for clients, I would, I wouldn’t go to a client and say, you need an hour and a half long webinar and then try to give them direction on all the tiny little things that should go in a really great sales driven, whether or not driven whether or not it’ll just be very difficult to pull off. And I’m not saying that, you know, if you watching this you’d love webinars and you’re just really good and you want to be the webinar expert King, don’t do it. Um, I just know that it’s not for everyone.

Lynsey  (28:32):

Yeah. And they, I think you’re right. They’re there. It’s like, but then it’s, it’s like anything like a sales page, not anybody can write a sales page. There is absolutely strategies and ways that sales and direct response, you know, sales and different parts of the funnel. They actually have to be written specifically to talk to specific needs and specific times, it’s not just a case of, I’ll just put everything. I’m just going to list everything I’m going to do for you. And I’m going to list it all down and put some bullet points in and a few testimonials. And that’s it.

Zane (29:03):

I mean, I would almost prefer to tell the client to like, go like create a draft sales page versus a webinar. Um, I was consulting, there was something, for example, because I can change the sales page, you know, let’s change the webinar. We’d have to rerecord the entire thing. We’d have to render the entire thing. We have to upload the entire thing. I’m sounding like I’m really hiding the webinar.

Lynsey  (29:26):

Listen, I can’t say, look, I’m not really team webinar at myself. I have to say when I talk to a lot of clients, because of that, a lot of people, one can’t do a webinar well to result in an outcome. And a lot, I think consumers as have gotten really savvy to the webinars where there’s 35 minutes in, they’re just being bombarded with, you know, sales. They haven’t received a lot of value from it. And that the drop off the engagement rates that people spent, all this money, thinking that the webinar is going to fix everything and just be that key aspect in the funnel. And then they drop off. And that’s the part where the funnel really breaks down. If it’s not done well, like really, really well.

Zane (30:07):

And it’s not easy to do it really, really well. Cause it’s like a live presentation, like boy, it’s it’s, uh, it’s you talking and any little, I dunno, sometimes the client might be a perfectionist and then every little thing that they, you know, they want to change the light. It’s just the messy thing to get into. But you know, you see certain webinars that have just done tremendously well and they kind of, they they’re there, but people don’t understand how much work has to be put in. Like, I’m sure maybe some people might know of Sam Adams, um, who is like, he’s built his entire consulting business on top of one webinar. You know, it was like a $20 million buy now. And, but that’s kinda what the thing about webinars is that with those ones that are designed to sell something, especially, um, they’re kind of like extremely ready to pull off in college. I’ve actually got a really close friend who used to be, um, part of the fabric. Uh, he is an he he’s goal is to become the expert of all experts on sales webinars. And what he does is he goes to partners with businesses and says, we’ll create your webinar and I’ll build this out for you. They work on profit share of what that webinar does. Yeah. Um, yeah, the amount of work that there’s actually, there’s like 160 different slides in that thing. It’s uh, it’s crazy.

Lynsey  (31:36):

So what is, okay, so those are some of the aspects that aren’t working. What, what would be some advice you would give to marketers approaching, you know, building out sort of okay. You know, I think funnels are a great buzz word that gets thrown around and C suite quite a lot, or gets thrown around quite a bit. So we need a funnel or let’s say somebody gets the idea of, we need a funnel and how do Marcus take that, that piece of going, okay. We know we need to be bringing in leads more consistently. We understand roughly the concept of, you know, nurturing and engaging people and getting to the point of conversion. What’s some advice you’d give a marketer sort of starting this journey of trying to bring in those sort of people through a sort of funnel or conversion system.

Zane (32:16):

Yeah. Um, don’t try to make something really complicated. Um, would be number one, number two, have you work backwards? So what are you actually trying to do are you’re trying to get people to buy what, like what, what is the actual, you know, service and then ask yourself, like, why would they want that? Um, and then what problems are they having that would make them want that? And then ultimately like what’s the experience they want to have before and after, and getting really clear on that and then just use a proven methodology to create offers that fit that. So like, let’s say it’s people can call into, um, thousand dollars service, something like that. Yeah. I blew it service. I’d ask all those questions and then like, okay, well they probably suffering these problems or they’re going through this. Uh, what I can do is I can create them a plan to get them out of it.

Zane (33:06):

And so that will be my goal. I’ll actually create a plan, you know, and Nicole they’ll get a document and that document will have the Juul effect of being able to sell the service. And that’s something that I can turn into a template. I can turn that into a process, you know, over time it can improve itself. It becomes an asset. Um, and that’s really the key to growth in anything. It’s just like find the process, fix it, improve it, improve it, you know, over time, those conversion rates and then scale. And that’s like do that. Well million dollar plus revenue funnel like that, that’s it. And so I would take another setback working backwards after that call and then figure out what’s the content hook. What’s the lead hook, put that together. Um, how did it lead naturally into that cold? So then you have your sales process, sales funnel built out, right.

Zane (33:56):

That process doesn’t change, whether it’s COVID and lung COVID or anything, it’s just like, that’s what we need to do the messaging on the page. Maybe let’s say time specific. It may include something to do with COVID or whatever is a timely and, uh, component, like sometimes certain brands that are happening like that, that we may use those like timely components. Um, but yeah, like that, that’s, that’s just the process that I would recommend you to follow to that. Um, and then in terms of actually getting it built out and getting it, um, you know, set up, I would not be too much of a perfectionist about it, but I would find out what a great opt page looks like, find out what a great, um, you know, free session page looks like. And I would model it and replicate it and try to re agreement the entire we’ll just do it.

Zane (34:52):

Um, and then allow the numbers to tell you what could be at all and what what’s, uh, what needs to be able to lines. So, you know, like you might find that your, your ads aren’t performing well, then go find out why, what can we change? They’re like, and what, the way that we test funnily enough is like, I mean, we do, we do test creative and copy like we do, but what we’re testing is not the creative copy. It’s not like I’m testing the big job or I’m testing the line. You know, I’m testing angles more than I’m testing, actual specific things. Like I’m not testing blue photo versus red photo, which is going to be about, it’s like blue, which about like, let’s say digital marketing talks about why digital marketing is such a, a great industry to get into right now versus bread. Um, in terms of like, let’s say that, you know, the location free benefits of digital marketing, those are the main things that I’m testing as at a stage one. And that’s before I test anything like red versed loop, because you’ve got to find the angle, that’s a work, the message holistically. Um, that’s gonna work. Uh, unfortunately you just have to, you know, you have to find out before you can test little things, cause people all the time they’re testing like red versus blue, creative on the campaign, that’s fundamentally the wrong angle. Yeah.

Lynsey  (36:20):

Yeah. And it’s, it’s amazing how many people that they build out funnels. They build out that gets, I’ve seen this happen so many times with clients. It’s that they go, okay, I’ve got my landing page, I’ve got my ad funnel level. This like will be email six, I’ve done this whole thing. And they set it out and it doesn’t work and they get completely disheartened. And it’s like, you’ve got to just go back in and look at which parts are working. Did they actually click through from me Radford if they did click through, how long did they spend on page? Did they bounce? What did they do when they did that? Are they the wrong? So you have to start triaging it and testing things. If you only go out there. I think the tricky thing, a lot of marketers forget is that there are so many moving parts to a funnel. It’s not as simple as there’s just, you know, here’s the ad and it’s done. There were so many aspects to it that they have to keep checking and testing and optimizing in order to get the absolute best return from it.

Zane (37:13):

Yeah. And it’s just not working out. It was on that cause you to find out what, what’s the ultimate return you want to say, like what, what do you want people to do? And then think less about, you know, your ad and your business, more about the customer and what they’re experiencing. Um, yeah. Like, look, if, if you’re not getting clicks and opt-ins, um, as an example, it’s just that more likely than not that the message is wrong or the angle is wrong, not so much. I mean, it could be your copy. Maybe we need to help you start with, maybe you just use like a hug or something. But if the angle, you know, was there even with like mediocre copy and media pitches, but you’ve got a great angle. Something that inspires curiosity, kind of making this up a little, wait, wait, what, what is that type of thing?

Zane (38:00):

Um, you know, uh, intrigues them into wanting to read more like curiosity is the biggest thing when it comes to getting, getting top level leads. Um, so there’s gotta be that element to, to your funnel. And then the biggest thing towards getting those qualified bookings is, um, just a couple things proven that you can actually help them and then having some also some unique element to whatever it is that your, your workings will allow them to accomplish. Um, have those two things then that’s really all you need for that portion. And then when it comes to actually selling your service, actually the perceived value just needs to be way above the risk. If you can have that, then you’ve got that, making it sound super simple,

Lynsey  (38:48):

But, but you know, some of these things really are,

Zane (38:50):

And there’s a lot of metal stuff, you know, and there’s a lot of tactical stuff going on at each day.

Lynsey  (38:55):

Yeah. But I think a lot of people get really ingrained in, I’ve got to make it purple and have this, and it’s got to look this way and they miss the fun. It’s not simple it’s then they miss the fundamentals to get right. Because if you get the fundamental parts of the actual process, right. And the offer and the message, you know, whether the ad is red or blue, whether it’s, you know, the funnel is, you know, lands on purple or it looks like this, or you’ve used this font and it matches with that or that people get really caught up in the detail without looking at the, sort of the bigger macro stuff,

Zane (39:26):

For sure. A hundred percent. And that’s what we try to do. Or we try to have the macro process, um, already optimized and lay down. So, you know, for the client like that, that is essentially what we’re doing everyday. Like we’re building these macro processes, sales systems. That’s what a sales funnel is to me. It’s not just late, it’s not just a hat. It’s like the entire thing, you know, from someone who’s never heard of you to someone who’s sitting down, talking to you about signing up for your service and then even potentially being on that, you know, there’s bottom of funnel stuff that happens going up. We don’t delve too much into that. We just try and get clients predictable sales for this

Lynsey  (40:07):

One last piece of advice for marketers, for people sort of looking at this sort of now you sparked their interest in sort of funnels or like understanding that more of that process, any one final, which is a huge question to ask, but I’d like to throw everybody under the bus with it,

Zane (40:22):

Any one final thought

Lynsey  (40:24):

Piece of it. Yeah. I sold a piece of advice for marketers in this kind of area

Zane (40:29):

In terms of sales funnels specifically. Um, it was a lot of components to it, right? There’s copy as, um, positioning that look, there’s certain parts of, of the process of building a sales funnel that can be, um, quite automated. And, and that might be, you know, you work out or that a template that you know is proven and that might be one thing. Um, but there’s certain parts that can’t be automated and they are strategic pots making sure that you’ve got the right offer and talking to the right person. But the right angle is what he’s talking about. This curiosity there, you know, that, that copy one made it. So it makes sense to spend your time on those high level skills that will make or break how you differentiate. What you’ll do you remember? What else? Um, yeah, that just, that copy is one of those skills and then strategy is another one of those skills.

Zane (41:29):

Um, strategy is knowing what you’re doing. Copywriting is actually it into, um, you know, into the sales funnel itself, making the sales funnel, but the messaging behind it. So I would say, yeah, there’s a hack to it to building like, you know, million dollar sales funnels. It, um, you just gotta get good at knowing, um, angles strategy and knowing how to convey that in solid copy. Um, because the processes are out there. Like sometimes I hear people talking about sales funnels, I’m like, Oh yeah, I’m comparing my webinar funnel to my book funnel. Um, which is just another thing for my free course funnel. And it’s just like, you’re just doing a whole bunch of different tactics. Um, you know, for like the funnel process, sales funnels are not processed. Like it’s not the process that makes the sales funnel, it’s the office within the process, the sales funnel, um, work on our work, uh, so that I would consider it to be more important than the process that you use. So it doesn’t matter if you’re running a webinar or, or, you know, whatever it is, um, offers within the sales funnel and the strategy behind it is the most important thing. So I’m hoping that makes sense.

Lynsey  (42:35):

Yeah, absolutely. So as I, for everybody’s listening, how can they work with you reach out to you, like if someone’s listening to this going yep. Love it. But this isn’t me. I need to do to reach out to somebody. How can people get in contact with you work with you?

Zane (42:51):

You can check out what we do, [inaudible] dot com dot a year. Um, there is a webinar, funnily enough, uh, on that website, uh, that talks a bit about what we do in terms of the process, um, and why it’s kind of like unique, different, um, which is good to have a webinar. And that would be one thing that you could kind of engage in. Like if you wanted to come to learn a little bit more about, this is also a way to get in touch there. Uh, we’ll just find me on LinkedIn. So Zane is that Annie, um, Bassett Vic IC.

Lynsey  (43:24):

Awesome. Zane, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today. I think that has given everybody some serious insights into this sort of elusive world of there. We say the buzzword, like the funnel and what people sort of do in that sense. And also, you know, where marketers go in the next chapter. And I can’t believe that’s episode number 10 out of 10. You are our last guest in this series. So thank you so much for taking the time with us guys as always questions, comments, feedback, send us a pan sense of DM. Jump in on the email. I have got another awesome episode with not focusing on the next chapter, but an awesome guest for you coming up next week. And then we will be revealing our brand new brand new series. That’s going to launch on the podcast very, very soon. Zane, thank you for your time today. And we out

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