The Summary

Lynsey is joined by digital marketing legend and multiple award winning agency owner Brett Campbell to discuss where business owners need to focus in the next chapter. Brett drops some incredible insights from his history of smashing  campaigns and driving huge success for his clients even when every other factor in the market stands against them.

The Guest

Brett Campbell is a serial Entrepreneur, having founded 2 of Australasia fastest growing companies in there respected fields, including the Fast Growing fitness franchise at its time, exploding to 35 locations within the first 6 months of operations, and currently the fastest growing Digital Growth Agency, having recently won the accolade of 2018 Best Social Media Agency of the Year award for Australia and NZ within their first 12 months of operations.

Brett is a go to business expert when it comes to fast and effective business growth, having invested over $2M personally in paid advertising & his company now managing millions of dollars a year in advertising spend for his clients in over 30+ industries.

Brett is a published Author, Global Speaker and Television Personality on Australia’s #1 Mainstream Business Channel.

The Episode

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The Transcript

Lynsey (00:00):

Welcome back to another special episode of the gospel of social media. And I’m so excited for this one today because I have the man, the myth, the legend, mr. Brett Campbell joining me. And I am just, I’m so stoked. And I’m so appreciative that you’ve joined us on this podcast. I got to meet the one who’s a Brett, a couple of years ago, actually through a program. We both work in and I’m as a participant in, at the time through the entourage. And I was just blown away by this guy’s content and how much he knew about the digital marketing industry. So I’m not going to do justice in terms of explaining how much of a legend this guy is. So I’m going to let him introduce himself to everybody. So, Brett, do you want to just give us a bit of a, just tell us why you’re so awesome. Scaffold she’s not here.

Brett (01:01):

Um, look, I, I guess my inception seeing we’re talking obviously social media here is mine section social media was, was back in the, uh, you know, back in 2007, eight really went Facebook, sorta the advertising platform was created, um, to give you an insight into my mind as I like to achieve things in the short as possible time of the highest possible result. So that’s my methodology and Alliance one of them, right? So I’m always looking for what’s new. What can work? How can we utilize this? And we take advantage of it. Um, what can I do differently? What rules cannot break here? Can I create here? So that’s, uh, that’s really important that I premise that because you know, a lot of what I share is very simple, but it’s always governed by, but that guiding principle,

Lynsey (01:51):

but you’ve been kind of a pioneer in this industry. So it’s, I’m really excited to get your perspective on a lot of these sort of questions we have because you aren’t coming from let’s follow the crowd. You guys have been really been carving out a lot of the stuff that we’re seeing now. So

Brett (02:06):

yeah. Yeah. Look, I’m, I’m glad to be able to think about it as well. And I’m definitely not the book because the reality is, is there’s really no secret toad. It’s just, you know, it’s the lack of action that people might take around it. But, you know, early, early, you know, corridor pioneers was one of the first of the gate almost. Um, you know, I literally cut my teeth in Facebook advertising and the health and wellness space. Um, it seemed initially, um, so, you know, at the time of us going to put this company in Australia with a franchise had not to go with doing certifications, um, you know, we had, we sold tens of thousands of online products, uh, hundreds of thousand mobile apps. And so we were basically whatever you could sell, we had in supplement range, clothing, everything in the fitness sort of space with that sort of where we cut our teeth with, um, just to give context.

Brett (02:51):

So when Facebook advertising initially started, there was no tracking pixels and I knew it was Google analytics, but I had idea about it, my way of tracking and measuring success was that I had more money in the bank today than what was going out, which I think is still a very good measure, especially when you’ve got more going in, you don’t have to pay as much attention. Um, so really, um, you know, I guess jumped on the train of opportunity at a very early stage. Um, and obviously you’ve been able to see, you know, the many changes that happened throughout. And I mean back when in 2009, 10, 11 organic reach was at, you know, like he to the point where I was sorta known as, um, the guy who had been able to build multiple ecosystems around Facebook fan pages and, and, and, and again, happy to go deep on any of these topics here. Cause I think there’s a lot of learnings in the, but, um, utilize what was available from an organic perspective and paid perspective. Uh, and then fast forward to, you know, I did my 10,000 hours long apprenticeship in advertising. I actually opened the doors to, um, three years ago, um, multiple running digital growth agency here, conservative paradise, funny enough, four weeks ago, we actually opened the sister agency to that. It’s not one, but it’s two now, isn’t it? Yeah, that’s right.

Brett (04:24):

Well, look, if this there’s such a need and I feel that when you hold the key to something, um, and you have have a level of knowledge around something and, um, you know, we’re right now in an industry while I’m so excited and to give context. So every time a new team member joins our team, you know, first thing we do in the morning is we always don’t want and how to obtain big circle and morning huddle. And, um, you know, one of the things that Imran entertainment and myself included, we share, you know, what’s the one thing that we’re most excited about, you know, being able to, to be a part of flexible, pure and roots. Um, and for me, it’s always the same thing. It’s the opportunity that we have in this industry. This is such a new industry. This is important to stick to the restaurant and emphasis will explain a lot of things that are happening.

Brett (05:11):

We’re in an industry that is so new. I, I use the metaphor of the digital marketing space and digital advertising space. Is that overall, I would say, take that on the cake that hasn’t been putting me out on me. Right? So it’s still so fresh. It’s still so new. No one really knows there’s been agencies for many, many years, but it’s a different types of agencies. We’re in an IEP performance, you’re going to get results or you’re on the straight talk scenario. Um, and the opportunity that is presented to us as, you know, we can sit there and watch how other people are doing, or we can carve our own path, which is what I’ve always done, you know? And that’s an innate thing with Eric to try that, you know, I’ll do a follow the laser. I’ll always just, you know, if there’s a bomb that goes off, I’m not following anyone out of the building, I’ll follow my own intuition and go out. Sometimes they’ll lay me to the wall.

Lynsey (06:04):

Well, you learn that way. That’s the thing. And you learn fast.

Brett (06:10):

Yeah. Yeah. They’ll interrupt rough. But it’s the, when, when you can take away the fact that you need to copy your model other businesses and allow yourself to have a bit of a free reign, it’s how I’ve been able to, in a number of times, strap the Facebook in history to be able to get massive success, you know, and then a couple of things you have shared some stories around that is, um, like first rule of Facebook, or I just do what Facebook’s is. And not just what they say is in the written word or something. It’s whenever they creating any type of, um, new product or new, you know, um, INAC special, you need to look at it and pay attention because you’re not just doing it for shits and giggles. They’re doing it because they’re testing whether or not they want to keep this thing.

Brett (07:01):

And they only ever going to bring new improvements that they feel it’s going to increase the value of the app, right. At any one time. And this is from Mark Zuckerberg made upset. Mazzuca said, I’m in an interview. And that at any one time, it can be 10,000 variations of Facebook happening. But that doesn’t mean this is what I mean by that is you might next year, you might be in Atlanta and be with you pot and all of a sudden, what’s that thing on your app. I don’t have that on mine because you’re not part of the beta [inaudible].

Lynsey (07:34):

Yeah. W we got an email this morning about just like a Facebook bringing out email, like direct email from within the platform. And we came back and said, well, look, we don’t have it on any of the 50 odd cans that we’re looking at, but we’ve actually, you know, we’ve been open to a beta group on another product, which is very similar. That’s linking into that. So it is, yeah, a lot of times where people are going, what is this thing? Or we’ve heard about it, but they test things in different markets. They test them against different internet speeds. They test them against different population demographics. So it’s interesting that we get lumped into different test groups being based in Australia. Then you wouldn’t the U S to New Zealand to, depending on where you are as well. So yeah, they’re always, always doing something.

Brett (08:14):

And can you, there’s the pay attention, pay attention to what’s happening? So in the early days, Facebook offers, which Facebook offers is still around right now is in a Facebook offer, came out and to give context, basically golfers have a fan pages. And if you go in, is that a business page? And it’s the same thing.

Lynsey (08:33):

You’ve just side newsfeed timeline, the title Patato

Brett (08:38):

that’s right. Um, and they bought a, basically a Facebook offer or they introduced, it was for offline brick and mortar businesses. Cause a lot of businesses like, well, we have people who come into our shop, online advertising isn’t gonna necessarily work. Um, so they to the Facebook offer and the, the example they had was like for a cupcake store, right? So if you’re a cupcake store, you put up the offer and the like buy one cupcake and bring this voucher and then you’ll get 50% off the next cupcake or to get a cupcake for free. You just gotta, you gotta press a button that says, get offered. You can download and print out print Piper voucher that you type into a shuffles up. Jesus is the same long and laborious at the time I was, you know, I knew what, um, you know, often pages were and I’ve already created some.

Brett (09:25):

And so I was really so that real heavy into the digital marketing space. Um, and I was like, Oh, what if I, how do I drive traffic? How do I use this? Get off at the same people in mind, open page. So what I did was I copied and pasted my, uh, Optim page blink. And I put it in the terms and conditions like 12 times, like bang, you know, so there’s a big, big cloud of blink. And it was obviously what happens, Chris Christa place, the offer. And in 24 hours, we generated 12,564 leads on the database. We had over a hundred thousand saved by over 5 million people within 24 hours. And I was like, Holy shit, that’s pretty good. And then Facebook Greeks asked him, he said, Hey, can we go to K state or new? This is a really good thing. And when I looked into it and how I did it, they got all a, because we don’t want people copying and pasting their often link.

Brett (10:21):

I took an opportunity and I became resourceful to my very opening line of, I sort of pushed the barriers of the rules, right. It wasn’t no guideline around that. You couldn’t do that because they clearly hadn’t thought about that. Um, but now I still conferences evolved over the last few years and you can now put an online redemption link in. Then when we did that off of the funny thing was we literally had people traveling from like burst and downs in the gold coast with a voucher click the meal plan. We’ll give it away. It’s crazy. But when we did it, we did it again and again and again, we want to generate an easily at bet, a hundred thousand leads for our business, grew that one method. And it was afraid that without any thought

Lynsey (11:10):

then I know, and if you know what I would be, I’d be hitting if I out for a bit of commission on every offer that goes out, cause you’ve clearly kind of put something into the ecosystem that they’ve taken advantage of.

Brett (11:20):

Certainly have.

Lynsey (11:23):

Yeah. So Brett, look, I want to, you know, I want to give you an, and this is a really broad question, but I kind of like to start from this place now, obviously the COVID-19 crisis, it’s something the world hasn’t seen before. It’s, you know, we’ve got huge changes in online consumer behavior in our economy and our working behavior. And I think the big thing at the moment is a lot of marketers are kind of sitting back and going is the plan that I wrote at the beginning of the year, still valid. Like, what am I doing? And so the question I’m going to open for you kind of with is where as where’s marketers and small business owners, where do we go to from here? Like just where we are. I know it’s a big juicy one, but it’s like, we’re sitting here today. We’re coming kind of getting out of restrictions. We’re getting, seeing how the change in the economy. It’s like, what do we do now?

Brett (12:08):

You know what we need to do. And I literally, um, and coming off into our podcast where I talked about this a little bit, but I think it’s so important and to nothing to do with marketing. Cause I feel there’s a lot of businesses are working on the right things in the wrong time. Right. They feel that, Oh man, now I need to get on social media. I need to do paid advertising. Maybe, maybe not first step that you need to look at as you need to reconcile your current business, where you’re at the position you’re at, do you even want to be in this business? Right. Um, do you want to be in this business anymore? What is your growth goals? What are you what’s the vision of this business? Is it signed you even more inspired to do this even hotter and garden bigger? And if so, what does that look like? Um, do you want to reduce the size of your current business? For whatever reasons you need to get super clear on that face? Right? Cause that’s where every marketing strategy is grown from. You know, I say one of our taglines with flexing is we don’t build ads. We build businesses hashtag trademark.

Brett (13:19):

And it’s very true because we can jump straight into an account and we can get you some performance if you use some great app accounts, you know, but we need to look at what are we actually growing here? Are we growing something that in six months it’s going to break or you’re not going to be happy with, or you know, is this industry you still want to be in? I feel that COVID has offered the ultimate reset that every business, a hundred percent alternate reason, Tom you to stay back. If you haven’t already, you should do it now before the next month, because shit’s gonna happen again. And you’re chasing your tail right now. Oh, now I’m back into a stressful moment. It’s like, you’ve got time added to give yourself a break. Right. Um, so I feel next, the thing that we needed

Lynsey (14:03):

and I think it’s really, you know, it’s interesting because we spoke with Katine um, last week on this, it was one of the things she said as well is just, is this a business that you actually want to fight for? Is this a business that you love? Because if it’s, you’re going to sit back and look, and sometimes we’re so head down and that opportunity of having this quieter period, you know, where things have been closed down, we’ve had more time at home to actually reflect and go, is this a, you know, this is the businesses that the thing that I actually want to portion, I want to fight for this, this what I actually love to do. And if it’s not, why are you trying to bring life back into that thing? And you know, what’s the, you know, the immediate sort of thing from that. If, you know, if that’s not the business you love, this is your opportunities. So to revamp it and take it, you know, new places and new directions.

Brett (14:46):

Yeah. For us, it was, you know, alluded to earlier. We we’ve started a sister agency for us. It was, we needed to double down. We need to bring out goals 12 minutes. So we need to really double down on the segment and got hot as to what’s that going to look like, what’s that going to change? What does it look like for, for the team? What does it look like? Um, for all of our clients and potential clients. So there’s a lot of thinking that needs to happen. First. I feel people run to social as it’s the help social get me out of this. That’s why social is only going to amplify what’s happening, but what’s going to end with all your shit business model it. And I joke around and I said this, um, [inaudible] um, excellent property sheds where we to, um, he said to him, I said, mate, if you work with us, we’re going to either blow up your business or we’re going to blow up your business.

Brett (15:49):

We’re only going, gonna amplify, and it’s going to go through the roof or we’re going to blow it up. You’re not going to be able to handle that. Um, you’re going to see the cracks and now the traffic and everything that we’re going to send you. And he thought that was funny. Um, but the truth in it is it’s that, you know, I saw strapping and Canada set to Memorial at a highest bang. That’s going to get [inaudible]. So before anyone wants to donate to Google or Facebook or Instagram, just Facebook or Snapchat, any of these platforms can spend money and be heard and be saying, you need to make sure that you’re advertising the right thing. And I, I can’t express enough. Like a lot of my time is spent around these sort of high level narratives. You know, like I’m not the guy to talk about with like, what’s the best ad strategy right now.

Brett (16:43):

I may not go to the team for that. I go, Hey, Tim, I frequently sit down with all of our strategists and got lots of working on now, what’s killing it. Why is this? And I’ll, you know, I’m trying to shoot a lot of stuff, but for me, the most important things for the business owner, they need to get the high level understanding of this, you know, first and foremost posts that you need to go, okay, this is the business I want. What does it look like? Great. But don’t think of how, think of whom, right? Highly, you got flow social, right? High flex, and go, go and find someone who can do this. It’s I guess we’re not an agency. So please don’t hire a flow social, which is more training where your people go to class.

Brett (17:29):

If you wanted to, if you don’t want to do it. Yeah. What rock you want to learn it? Do you want to go to an internal team or do you hire an external team? They have all the capabilities required. The reason is, and you’ll probably hear this from you. I think you have reason for this, that business owners are not trading, marketing the way they need to treat marketing the most important and all of the, by anyone out there listening marketing is the most important aspect of your business. Because if you ain’t got any eyes on this product or service that you’ve got, or you don’t have anyone putting up their hand or no one knows who you are in this secret, I’ve met a lot of best kept secrets.

Lynsey (18:12):

The thing that annoys me about, well, I want to say annoys it royally shits me is when we sit down and we consult with businesses and they’re like, Oh yeah. So we’ve got the intern and you know, she’s really good on Instagram. So she’s doing our social and I’m just sat there going, you’ve just handed over one of the most valuable, you know, positive, you know, potential to return cash into your business assets, to somebody who’s had no formal training, who’s got no strategy. Who’s got no real, like they might be passionate about, you know, using the platforms, but that doesn’t equate to them actually being a qualified marketer, having a strategy and a goal and a way to push your business forward. So the number of businesses that I talked to and it’s just like, Oh yeah, we know we sort of just doing social and I’m just, well, you know, they don’t even have things like protections for their assets in place. Like they don’t know who has the password to their Instagram account. Like that’s a fucking asset to your business that could be making you serious amounts of money. You need to know where that’s going.

Brett (19:04):

Yeah, absolutely. You know, and it’s the, it gets thrown off to Mary cause she’s got an adult page on his family. She likes to post there or, you know, Barry’s run an ad for his cousins. Um, or I grew in business and you know, like is, and this is goes back to the narrative at the start is the industry is so new. The reason why you don’t see people out on Facebook asking, you know, what do I put in the w two wages and salaries field? And my bachelor, Tim, I mentioned to him, if you hire an account,

Lynsey (19:36):

yep. This

Brett (19:37):

definitely will. Later in the mail tomorrow, chances are, you’re going to reply to it necessarily move, but you’d see your lawyer, right? If you want customers, you need to learn it and do it yourself and commit yourself to it. So I’m a self taught marketer, so to speak, right? And we might have different views. And I’d love to have to say what the whole time, because I’m coming from a place of, I came from a place of education, right? Where I was teaching a lot of people, how to do it. And you know, I was just getting sick of teaching people and this a lot of the way of doing it, which lead to let us just do it for you. Talk to me, I honestly feel for most business owners, unless you’re a solopreneur, you don’t want to build a business and have multiple people working for you.

Brett (20:23):

Then you need to know it yourself. But if you want to build a company, when I’m sitting down with someone, they go, Oh, I’m going to have 20 locations. I want to do this is the slot. Well, right now you need to make a decision to be a business owner at the front end and you need to find the right people. It’s not how it’s hurt. Right? Um, so there’s this ongoing debate that I, that I’m continually having around. What should you do when people come to me, get off, tell me how to create a marketing strategy. I’m not, should you be the person that I’m talking to about this? Like, is this what you really need to be spending the time on right now, when you, when you can be guided to X, Y, Z, and generating an extra 10 grand of income to the business each month, and then you could use that as a resource to hire and build and grow your own team or whatever it looks up now.

Brett (21:07):

Oh, that’s actually a good idea. So again, it’s the changing the way in which I, as I said was, I am a self-taught because there was no one, there was no courses out there. I think it took me six years of doing it before I even cried a face to them and toss them fools. Cause I was like, I just, I’m just too busy doing it. And it changes a lot. Um, but unless you’re going to go and start and run an agency, right, then there’s really not a lot of value in the United, all the locker and details, you know, you need to know enough so they can start to find people who can do it for you.

Lynsey (21:48):

I think it’s important for business owners to understand the potential of the platform. And to just to understand, as I say, there’s pedestrian, because a lot of business owners approach social media with this pedestrianized view of what social media is, it’s posting a photo, it’s getting, you know, friends and family. They like pictures. I put stuff on Instagram, they don’t understand the power and the AI and the real driving force that sits above that in the business suite, like a way we target the way we use DASA, the way we use the AI. So I think them having some sort of basic training, even if you’re not going to be the person who does it understanding the potential of it and what it can do, I think is so, so valuable. And I think as well, when you’re first starting out, you know, sometimes it’s always in a business.

Lynsey (22:29):

If you’re in the marketing role, it’s also future develop your skillset. If you weren’t in the business owners role, it’s good for you to get some understanding. If you’re starting out, you know, you might have that budget requirement where you know what you are going to be the gardener, the driver, the cleaner, the cook, the CEO and everything at that point. But there will come a point in your business for an order for it to grow. You’re going to have to get somebody to actually take on some of that stuff. And you’re going to have to start delegating that out to spend the time, you know, where you need to in your business. But I think it is, it’s the fact that a lot of businesses just go completely hands off. Like, I don’t want to know about it. I’m not techie. And I’m just even things like, Hey, do you know, there’s an opportunity to pull leads directly from the Facebook platform? No, I didn’t. Did you know, it could link up to CRM system so you don’t hide from that can automate a fully, no, I didn’t like just knowing that’s an opportunity, gives them the empower, talks the right questions and to work better with an agency as well. I think I’m going to jump some of these questions here for it because I feel you and I could talk for two hours on this.

Lynsey (23:30):

Right. Look, I want to just, and again, it’s quite broad, but what are the top three areas given everything that we know is happening, given that we know like at the moment, consumer behavior lines changed, eCommerce is absolutely flying. What are three areas you think marketers should be focusing on knowing what we know now, knowing where we’re standing sort of here today?

Brett (23:50):

Yeah. So the overall strategy is the first. So, you know, before you run any ad, you should be able to justify how does this fit into an overall macro strategy of growing revenue, right. And they will put on the ads and just hope that it’s going to get a return and we’ll figure out what we do next. So it’s so easy to go on and create ads. It’s also the Ackerleys field. So strategy first, right? I then would actually look and I’ve gone to an autopsy on your products and services and how they currently being positioned in the industry.

Lynsey (24:21):

Okay. I just absolutely love that. Go and do an autopsy on them. I love that expression.

Brett (24:27):

Got it. The scalpels, if you want to put on it, feel free to put on a sexy nurse dress or a doctor’s out or whatever. Yeah.

Lynsey (24:35):

Listen, there’s no judgment. Whatever goes on behind closed doors. Okay.

Brett (24:39):

Definitely get into it. Get into thing is all I’m saying, get into the mode of provide an autopsy over your entire product, suite your, and then look at how it’s actually is. There’s two parts to it. There’s how you perceive your product is seen by an industry and then how people were perceiving it. Right? But people think that you need to change an ad or some wording, et cetera. You need to look at the actual look and feel of your products and services and how they’re being safe first, again, more of a high level thing, but something that most businesses do not do. Right? So brought an example like, and this really highlights cause I’m gone through working on a bit of a big project here. Super exciting. Um, and one of the things I always like to do is challenge my thinking and go, how do I take a day ahead already to date?

Brett (25:28):

Um, and for example, you would assume that a lot of people would come to us because they want more customers, more customers. But when you break it down and go little data is that most people come to us. Not because they want more customers, they come to us because they know that they want their marketing taken care of. And then it’s trusted hands. And that way we’re going to be able to get the vicious results possible for them. That just happens. They end up as customers. So the narrative, the conversation, the communication, everything changes, right? There’s so many ways you can market a handbag or some active wear, you know, or a particular service offering that you have. You need to truly take the deep dive and look at and spend the time upfront. Right. Really figuring out who the person is that you’re selling to them.

Brett (26:23):

What do they deeply, truly desire? We hear this, this is just standard marketing, kind of, what do people want? What’s their problems and how do you solve it problems. But you can’t just stop at what’s their problems. Yeah. Not enough time. What do you mean by that? Yeah. Well, let’s, let’s break it down. Let’s put on our stethoscope was Guinness scalpel. Let’s an autopsy. Don’t not enough time. What does that mean? You have to break it down in there. The rhythm for the red thread is a systemic reason why they don’t have enough time. And if you can tap into those things, you’re able to articulate and communicate your product and service in the way that you’ve given up before. It’s going to allow you to cut through any of the noise that’s out there in industry, because most people copy everyone else.

Lynsey (27:05):

Yeah. So would you recommend in part of that sort of, you know, deep diving and looking into product, would you recommend doing things like consumer research, um, competitor research, looking at what other people are doing, or do you think that skew somebody’s viewpoint about their actual own products?

Brett (27:21):

I definitely think it’s important for sure. It’s it’s your outlook on what you had in type the information that you look at? Cause someone something, Oh, they do listen, they got a really cool opt in page. We should make us look like that. So they get caught up. They get caught up for a minute, right? You don’t know when the back end results. So you can only take, take a perspective of what you see, um, and, and how it’s being perceived. The best way you can get, you know, market research is by asking your customers that’s there, but here’s the thing. And this is where it really takes a different level of intellectual field and go to these depths is if I put out a survey and say, you know, what do you want more customers? Is it, is it brand awareness? Is it whatever? And let’s say people slipped in customers. Then I go, Oh, it’s customers. But if I didn’t know, to think at a deeper level, what else is it really I’d be sick with a false narrative because they were only given certain options to select. So having conversations with potential clients, when you’re with your current clients, even in truly get to the nucleus of it now not everyone’s going to find this cataclysmic shift, that’s going to change your entire business process. You just don’t know.

Lynsey (28:38):

Yeah. And even just that 5% change could be a huge, even just like a 5% change, even just a different spinoff. Wow. We’ve always, you know, said to customers it was this, but actually they’re telling us that can have such a huge impact on a business. Just that tiny piece of information that you actually use and embed into your strategy.

Brett (28:58):

An example was, is now held kind of, maybe we sent out a survey and four and a half thousand people completed the survey, which is a massive stop now in saying that that went out. And so, you know, a subset of maybe 80,000 people, maybe people like subset. So you’re not going to get a lot of people complete it, but that’s what happens when you build a big database, you can get up intelligence. And through that survey, we asked a number of questions and there was two questions that were answered in a way that if I carried on with my own, just do what I think, do what I think, do what I think and not sort of step back sometimes to actually see what’s really happening. We would have run our first overseas in a country that no one even wanted to go to.

Lynsey (29:47):

You’re like, it’s not as Springer on Bulletproof press. It’s lovely.

Brett (29:52):

Yeah. What do you mean you don’t want to get Afghanistan? Um,

Lynsey (29:56):

well weather is actually really nice. I’m just going to say is beautiful. It’s very dry heat

Brett (30:03):

and we wouldn’t have, we would have created a totally different product and our next product launch wouldn’t have done as far as it did. And that was all white asking questions even to the point where one of the questions we asked was how many times do you want us to, uh, how many times a week? Uh, I’m sorry, how many times do you want to hear from us from email? And we had once a month, once every two weeks, once a week, twice a week, every day, the overwhelm and this was back when sort of email marketing was, you know, this was, this would have been cool four or five years ago, maybe. Um, and cause things have changed right now. I just want to sack like, Oh great status telling me this. I want to go do it, but I’ll give you the real, um,

Lynsey (30:51):

don’t sit someone down. We’d send emails every day.

Brett (30:56):

Yeah. So, um, we had an overwhelming majority. So like 75% of people wanted to hear from us either daily or twice a week. And I was like, Holy shit. We’re sending like once a week. And we thought that was like, Ooh, blue line. But, um, again, we were deciding myself, we felt I’m a customer and I’m not the majority of the customer. That’s the other component as well know. Um, excuse me. So really uncovering what’s for quote, what your customer really wants so they can have what I call the perfect customer journey is very, very important. Um, my, my advice around just cause I said, I was going to give you one a thought or an email marketing perspective. Cause I saw how many times should I email my customer? You have to paint or right. Depends on what you got to say. If I say to you, you should email five times a week.

Brett (31:54):

You got, well, what am I going to say? I don’t know. You tell me what I ain’t gonna say. What’s worthwhile for you to be able to share with you. If you can share content with your marketplace, that’s going to give them value are recommending nothing every day. But if you just emailed me for the sake of emailing, then I thought recommend that here’s where I’ll take it. Even another step is, is going to be people don’t want to hear from you every day. Cause they hear it from other people every day. They might just, you might just be once a week, right? You might just be able to side hustle for them and they might not want to hear from you every couple of weeks old when you’ve got something important to announce like a sale, you can correct parameters around just that. So I’ve seen that email click here. If you want to hear from us once a week, like you, if you want to hear from us every day, take care of you. They don’t want to hear from us problem. That’s a really good way. I kind of have none advice as well.

Lynsey (32:44):

Absolutely. It kind of, and again, I’d love to get your opinion on this one. Um, there’s this, we get this a lot as well. It’s like, Oh, well, you know, I watched, I watched this Gary V thing. And as soon as somebody says that to me, I just adjust. I think my face, my eyes are screaming. My face just falls. It’s like, yeah, he’s talking about, you know, producing content every day and 64 pieces of content a day. And I was just sitting there and I’m like, do your customers want to hear from you every single day and on all of those platforms. And do you have something of value to say to them like, cause you know what, for some brands they absolutely can do that. They can post nine times a day on Instagram. They can post in your stories, you know, 25 stories a day. They can, they can really go to town and the content and it’s always going to be received well, but Matt, you were an accountant or you were like, do they need to hear from you 64 pieces of content in a day? Probably not. Cause Gary V said it doesn’t make it right?

Brett (33:39):

Yeah. I may not. I’ve got some strong post that and you’re right. It’s, it’s um, very dependent and it’s pretty candid off current business. And can you actually even produce that? And what people fail to remember is Gary has a team of 35. April’s, it’s probably a hundred thousand dollars a month payroll. So you need to just the neck. Um, and so, and it’s an investment, right? If you can then yeah, content at scale is, is, is a good strategy, but you gotta be able to create it and it’s not easy and you need a number of people in your team. But the reality is, is if you’re in a position and you’re still that solopreneur in it and you don’t have all these extra resources, I would much rather you focus on putting out a dozen pieces and seeing what works best and then really amplifying the best piece with identifying. Yep, absolutely. Or else you’ve got a lot of head miss, you know, you got a lot of hit and miss. Um,

Lynsey (34:41):

I think as well, for some reason it just takes away. I was like, is producing content the most valuable activity for your business? I think it’s a valuable activity, but is it the most valuable thing you have to do today? Because if it gets to the point where the amount of time you’re spending, managing and producing content and stuff for your social is actually counterproductive to what you’re doing in the business. That’s not a good strategy.

Brett (35:02):

Absolutely. And a lot of people turn to the creative stuff because entrepreneurs are creative in nature. A lot of us, you know, I, I love the build. I love creating something and gonna go what’s next, but I’m not a, it doesn’t come naturally to me to want to manage day to day of a business. Like I, I’m a visionary, I’m an ideas, man. I can create things and get things happening really quickly. Um, you know, like I, I built my first house when I was 19 and I took two weeks off where I was a cabinet maker by trade. So I, um, you know, I was in the industry because I was in the kitchens in the walls. Um, but I took two weeks off and, and my workshop, you’re going to need a month. Nah, trust me. But we’re not getting my tastes, but I got to a point where I’ve built it all and I’ve got the roof on and everything was there in windows ran. And I kind of, I didn’t want to paint it now. So I hired a paint cause I was gonna do it all. I was like on a boat, Milton approves that I can go in the house. I don’t need to paint the walls.

Brett (36:14):

Let’s find someone who can help me. It’s not how do I do it? It’s what we cannot get. Okay. You want to think about how do I need to cut it on the wall?

Lynsey (36:24):


Brett (36:27):


Lynsey (36:27):

Airtasker I’ll look. So look, you know, they’re happy, obviously there’s been huge detriments to business. There’s been it’s this has been a horrible, traumatic, I think this has just been a global traumatic experience, but I actually do think there’s a lot of positivity that can come out of this and the way that we operate in the way that we do business and especially in the way that we market and we talk with our customers. So what do you think are some positives that marketers can take from this crisis that’s happened and how we move forward?

Brett (36:55):

I’ll look at it with a complete different lens to that. Um, is all look at it as a, this is an actually really positive thing that’s happening. Right. So, um, and I know you do too naturally and so forth.

Lynsey (37:10):

Yeah. Just, I mean, we, can’t not address the fact that, you know, there’s been huge amounts of deaths and job losses and things like that. So it’s not, it’s not a fantastic know it is a traumatic thing that’s happened in the world, but the opportunities that it’s giving us now, I think can be very positive.

Brett (37:26):

Yes. It’s like everyday, right? It’s always the ebbs and flows and out of this is going to come more greatness than, than the experience itself. And actually it’s certainly being traumatic for, for some people, right? Um, that from a business perspective, I call it the ultimate level up. I really believe it’s giving people a lot of get out of jail, free cards. I know a lot of them move back in it as well and bless them and respect some cause there’s some people who will stay in their business till the day they lie and that I hate every day of every minute of it. So I truly feel what whilst there is that negative connotation to it. There’s a lot of positive, but look, let’s not discount. There’s a more main effect that and all of that. But what I think businesses need to do is we just need to stop paying a lot more attention to what you haven’t been doing.

Brett (38:18):

Right. And what you shouldn’t really be focusing on. What’s the most important, like what’s the most important thing for you to be working on right now? Maybe it’s not marketing marketing’s in three months, six months, but at the very least you need to, before you engage in any paid advertising is to look at your business credit, financial budget, credit cashflow forecast. What can you invest? What sales do you need to have? Because without that, but we need everyone to come. All right, cool. Can you guys do an advertising? You know what? We might be able to run it. I get it. Tell us a little more about this. How much can you spend to acquire late? How much can you spend to get a customer? This is where I say normal businesses and then to work. That’s the unfortunate thing. Normal businesses, a mentor, people that people have this distinction that, Oh my God, I’ve got this product as soon as it has to wait. So it’s just not going to be the case.

Lynsey (39:12):

And a lot of people look at it going okay, well, and, and we see this as well. Like we, we advise them to a lot of businesses. We do a lot of consulting. It’s like, if you haven’t tested that product with your market, you’re not ready for social. Like we’re not ready to build ads. We’re not ready to do that because social media is not an advertising and paid advertising is not the silver bullet. It doesn’t make a shit product better. It just shows the world a shit product. And that’s not going to help you in the long run for things.

Brett (39:39):

Absolutely. And it comes back to a game I need to get rid of hockey products off. Then you might need to correct some more products and to the main. Um, but I think it’s exciting times though. Like I’m very optimistic and very positive about it. I think that the shift to digital is going to happen very, very quickly. Yeah. It’s been happening the last 12, 18 months and we get optics over, you know, the small solopreneur all the way up to fortune 500 massive companies doing hundreds of millions of dollars revenue a year. And there is a shift is starting to be the shift. Whereas I on, I need to do something about it. I get it. Or they might have tried with one or two people and it didn’t really work. They might not pass it off to the admin and expected me to marketing direct mail and it didn’t work.

Brett (40:29):

So social was known for us. There is going to be a massive shift as a Neil landslide over the next 12 months, it’s going to start to happen. You know, it’s already starting to happen scene. Uh, there’ll be a huge shift towards it. And the businesses that will win are the ones that have the right product to market fit is nothing more important than looking at new product to market fit so that when you are ready, you can amplify cause you can amplify very quickly. But if you’ve got a great product market fit, you got the distribution. Everything already said you can get results tonight. It’s unbelievable. The opportunity that we have to really gather to do that results to mind.

Lynsey (41:13):

Yeah. I look, to be honest, we’ve seen, we’ve definitely seen that with certain industries that just that hit a sweet spot over some of the changes, you know, and you know, lockdown restrictions, things happen. And they just, they pulled the right triggers at the right time and they just had an absolute sweet spot and we’ve seen some phenomenal results, particularly in the sort of e-commerce spikes, but some really phenomenal for some clients, you know, in just certain product niches that just have clean, like cleaned up, clean up.

Brett (41:38):

Yes. I was the only female sitting a little about a week of the COVID just syndrome, the shut down. She put the country and locked in the jail. Any thing really happened over there. She sort of pulled the trigger early, I think too early in my view, but we went to him that now I’m excited for another podcast. Um, and what it did was one of our clients and basically shut down their ability to ship any guns. And they’re like, Oh, we need to stop all advertising. And there’s a lesson behind this and this is probably more important than any yet. I’ll get to it in a minute, but it was, we need to shut it down. We, you know, we can’t do this anymore. And you know, maybe sitting there talking, talking it through with them, advising them from a more higher level business perspective and long story short, they ended up doing one point $6 million in sales.

Brett (42:34):

And the biggest month tonight was that 600,000. And that was in blast. My main goal when we did black Friday, a Monday, nothing had Aiden kind of closely with just back that up with another one and a half million dollar back to back months, um, all through those comments. But here’s the thing I were ready to stop. I didn’t told her, I literally said stop the advertising, but I heard when the Vietnam, no, no, we can do that. Let’s let us talk about this. Right. Um, so that had nothing to do with the advertising. What happened, what advertising was making and decision making the right business decision, right? It’s everything.

Lynsey (43:25):

I was going to say that you are going to be on their Christmas card list for a long time. So I want to sort of test, we wrap this up. I want you to, and again, this is quite a broad one. So what’s one of the best pieces of advice. I mean, obviously we’ve talked a lot about, you know, we’re moving forward from this period and you know, where businesses need to put, you know, focus on really understanding their products and things, but what’s one of the best pieces of business advice you could give marketers right now.

Brett (43:53):

[inaudible] who,

Lynsey (43:56):

and I will have these great, big, broad, sweeping questions to narrow down all this experience into like one or two sentences. But

Brett (44:01):

I like it a lot, but Brian thinking, um, biggest face of boss, I can give him back. And it’s right now, just to clarify, you’re talking people who are doing marketing or they’re, they’re like running and maintaining and creating the strategies, all of that. Or you’re talking to a business owner, the entrepreneur let’s talk about marketers. Okay, cool. So my biggest advice is taking the mindset and the approach of growth, not immediate growth, but longterm growth. But what you’re doing today has an impact in, and among in three months, in six months, what are we doing today to light the seeds for future yield, which is very, I plan, I plan all my businesses. I find the simple, long game, right? The reason why, where I would have had in our first six months of opening our franchise, we had 35 locked in locations operating with like over a hundred in the waiting line.

Brett (44:57):

It was because I’m playing the long game, 12 months previous, cause I’ve been building an audience for that. I’ve been building an audience of personal trainers and fitness professionals. So I was finding the long game, a feel market is a plain like fishy internal team. A lot of them, um, they’re playing the short game right now. They’re looking for the quick win you’re day trading attention, which you are looking at. How do we scale this longterm? What’s your budget scaling? What’s your phasing look like? What’s your, what’s your strategy around bringing in Omni channel? When you move to Google, when do you move to Snapchat and LinkedIn, what are you doing? How does that all look? So thinking very strategically about what you’re doing and get yourself out of the weeds, right. And not worry about CVO. And should I just do broad audiences versus interest audience and all of that right now. And that’s next to the micro needle. Look at the macro a little bit more so you can make more definitive decisions.

Lynsey (45:58):

Awesome. Absolutely love that. Brett, that has been, I mean, I think there’s so much that we can take from that episode and I really do appreciate you taking the time today. I’m sure you must be sick of talking by now. If you’re not at all three hours now

Brett (46:13):

I’ve got another one in 15 minutes.

Lynsey (46:15):

Oh my God. He’s just

Brett (46:17):

because initially one last question to do with that. So yes. I own two agencies right now, today. I’m doing it well. And most of the days I’m doing the thing that gives me the most for this. And that should be the goal of every entrepreneur and every business owner to be able to put themselves in a position where they can do the thing that locks them up the most. And I’m happy to speak the eight hours today on podcasts because I love it. Yeah. Well,

Lynsey (46:44):

appreciate you joining us, Brett, just in terms of anybody does want to reach out to you. If you’re listening to this and you want to talk to Brent more about being on your podcast, he’s very happy to podcast. He’s a great guest by the way. Um, so I mean, how, how do people get in contact with you? How do they get in contact with your agency? So if anyone’s listening and they want to follow on.

Brett (47:01):

Yeah. So if you go to Brett letter, you should be able to find links to everything and anything about me and what we do and all of the above. So, um, I’ve got a couple of podcasts SIG, I check it out. Um, and yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate you, uh, sharing maybe with your audience.

Lynsey (47:18):

Thank you very much, Brett, because we’ll drop their links in that, into the show notes. So you’ll obviously get that, um, to be able to contact Brett, if you do want to reach out and chat to him, I have very much appreciated this today and we will be back next week with another awesome guest on the gospel of social media and our very special 10 part series. The next chapter. Thank you, Brett.

Brett (47:38):

Thank you.

Lynsey (47:40):

And we’re at.

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