Awesome. Alright, so guys, welcome back to the gospel of social media. I am super excited today and I’m going to fuck this up because I’ve done three times, but I’m going to let her do this better. So I have Brooke Vilinovich. I’m going to let it by. I’m going to let Brooke actually I let all my guests reintroduce them. Cause I just get super excited and like go off on a tangent. And they’re like, no, wait, that’s actually not what I do. So I’m an absolute rock star in the Instagram world. An absolute expert in this field in, as everybody knows, Instagram is so, so huge as a platform. It is such a powerhouse and it’s such a key strategy for marketers that I’m super stoked to have Brooke join us today. So Brooke, I’m going to let you introduce yourself and properly explain better than I do what you do.
So, um, do you know what is so funny? My maiden name was Yugoslav and my married name is probation. So I have really been dealing with people not being out of this announcement and then my whole life as well as everybody else. Well then it bothers me, but the best way to explain it is it’s the middle of the beach. But if you say the Nila beach, it’s the same emphasis is
I love it. I’m just like vanilla bitch. And I’m like, I thought that’s what I was just a very basic vanilla, but not.
And I also made a highlight reel on my Instagram showcasing how to pronounce it just in case.
Let me see. Look at that. The Instagram strategies has got the Instagram thing. They’ve just brought this into LinkedIn as well, which I love is that little pronunciation tool. How cool is that?
Because in a professional setting, I would not consider myself a professional city person, but so people that are in professional settings in their work, I imagine it gets quite tricky. I’m getting off track. Um, my story is that what I’m doing now?
Tell us about yourself. Like, I mean, I’ve obviously said you’re just a rock star on Instagram, but you probably want to elaborate a little bit more on that.
I started off teaching Instagram and Facebook workshops in Perth, Western Australia, based on how I had grown a service based business and a product based business using the platforms. Now this was five years ago, so both platforms were much simpler and it was also a time when people wouldn’t know teaching social media companies were offering social media management, but they really wasn’t the ability, you know, now a dice says courses and there’s workshops and there’s membership sites and then these and that never came. It just, that just didn’t exist back then. So I was managing my own football. You said the businesses and found that it wasn’t as difficult as perhaps the perception was to do it yourself. Um, so I started teaching has to do it and I really focused on creating like an easy program that any business owner, even if they didn’t have a marketing background could follow, um, very similar to creating like a beginner’s workout routine, a workout fitness program.
So that was the mindset I was going in with something that people can just forward easily without actually having to think about it. So I also thought if I could do one of those workshops a month, um, that would be a little bit of side income with the other businesses that I was running. But because I was so focused on following up with every business that came, insuring them getting results for these workshops, which they were, um, and I guess when people are getting results and love to share it, so the workshop started to grow really, really quickly. So I, um, I had very quickly, I went from one workshop a week to two to three to four to five. Then I got to the point that I was doing multiple back to back workshops a day and I really just couldn’t fit them in fast enough.
So then I found a bigger venue and I expanded in there and then those workshops kept filling. And so I found another big of venue expanded in there and those workshop kept filling and that went for about two years. And then throughout those two years, I started getting inquiries to space. So my first big inquiries was actually came through from Mazda. So up until this point, I’d still just been to teaching small business owners. And then I got the inquiry from Mazda and I was like, Holy shit. I actually thought it was spam. This email that came true. I didn’t even reply.
No, no, leave me alone.
Speed. Anyway, and then I got another email following up saying like, Hey, we imagine, did you get that email? And I was like, shit. Um, maybe this is a serious business. I thought in a couple of months, time people will stop looking in. Everyone will know what they’re doing and I won’t really be able to do this anymore. But when I got the meds, sticking back was really the turning point where I thought, okay, I really need to tighten seriously. And I changed some things that I was doing. My business started offering more, um, more services online and created the social club as well, which is not online trading community now. So now I have a membership. I have my online cools and well before Corona, I was also doing a lot of speaking and speaking all over the world on how businesses can use Instagram to change their lives because it completely changed my life. And I do believe that if you’re willing to put in the work, it can change anybody’s that has a business that I want to market using with that.
Love it, love it. And that is, and I love that story as well. The fact that you’ve actually, you’re not just one of the, people’s like, yeah, I have an Instagram account. I made it look pretty and you’ve actually gone through and built several successful businesses from it. So you’re living and breathing and practicing what you preach and not just being one of those people. It’s like, yeah, I set up a business. I made one e-course come and do it. I made one Instagram, look pink.
I teach everything that I do. And I say that to the social club members too. So the way the social club membership works is each week we have activities to do, I do the activities and I teach what I’m doing and I teach what gets results, because if it worked for me, there’s no reason it can’t work for anybody else, you know? Yeah.
Yeah. Love that. So I’m going to, I’m going to dive into some of the questions now, obviously this, this series has been called the next chapter and the idea behind this is where we’re talking to marketing experts from all around the world and on different platforms, um, about what do marketers do now in the light of the change world after COVID-19 the changed economy, the change way we’re doing business. So it’s kind of that way of going if we had to throw out the marketing plan or do we just have to deviate from some things. So the first one is just where to now, where are we going to from here, knowing all that we know from, you know, how fucking crazy to 2020s been so far?
Look, the first thing that I want to say on that is I threw out my entire marketing plan for 2020. So the plans that I had involved, a lot of travel and it involved a lot of places that were not, we firstly, that you would have a passion for what you call it. I think these really nice, a lot of people reflect on whether they were willing to pivot, to do what it takes to work for free and really decide if you were willing to let your business dissipate or always go back to the beginning and work your bottle off, to get it up and running. Again, really that’s the difference that happened here. So, um, what I did personally is I sat down and I completely raided my ideal client profile because all of the change in the marketplace, um, and I really zoned in on, okay, what are the new needs of my customer?
And how can I get this information to them? How can I make this work? And I think that’s the first step that if any business owner listening to these, hasn’t done it already. That’s what you need to do. Cause then everything comes up that you need to know who your customer is. You need to know what their struggles are and you need to know how you can best serve them before you ever think about a social media platform. Once you do that and get that right, that that’s the first step to making the rest easy
Per reach. Love that. Yes that’s. Yeah. Have you heard that before from your auntie Lindsay? Yes. You have customers first.
And I would say on that, it’s where so many people go wrong. They are so focused on themselves, which sounds so silly because in business you don’t exist unless you have customers, but people get so focused on themselves that they forget about who’s at the other end today, do they give a shit?
Yeah. They’re like, Oh, we’re just going to make all this content. I was like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Back the truck up a second. This is, this is not where we start. Cause you know what, what you think you should produce to what you actually need to produce could be vastly different. So on that, what is kind of the three of the top areas. So you’ve obviously mentioned like reprocessing profiling, your customer, really understanding what their needs are now. What are some of the three top areas you think marketers should be focusing on? And in obviously your, your genius field is in that sort of Instagram.
Um, if you will managing brands, uh, you go to get your faces on social. You’ve got to get their faces on social app until COVID hit. You really could sort of hide behind the logo. But when the world is in crisis, consumers, state community, and they say connection and the fastest way to build that community and connection with your brand is by giving your brand a face and letting people get to know who are the people behind the brand and why should they support them? What is their story? How has this affected them? How has this impacted them and what are they doing to ensure that their customer’s needs are still met? So that would be my second biggest tip. Um, get, get real people on these accounts rather than just hiding behind graphics if there was ever a time now is the time. Um, and then thirdly, don’t be afraid to say why your content, like I share a variety of content, um, with the social club and with my business in general, I created a way to plan and prepare your content.
Um, how, like during the start of COVID, when it really intensely the most valuable content that was going to help my followers and in turn, convert them into customers for me was educational content on how they could market their business through a process. So for a couple of ways, every single post I did was just on that. And normally I share a variety of content. Um, the other content just wasn’t meeting their needs at the time. So if you have to scrap the way you’ve done it the whole time in business and start building just from what, and that is the most valuable content. Even if, to you, pardon me? Even, if, do you feel like a way of repeating content? It’s not about repeating content. It’s about meeting your followers needs gaining their trust, being the camp that stays on track and helping them.
Um, so many accounts, when you call you been hit just with like nuts with their content started sharing COVID means like every post wasn’t closed in name. And I was like, Whoa, what’s hiding. What’s that going to do with anything? Or also tiger King that’s when Tyler came real, being in all of these businesses, that used to be really helpful platforms to follow suddenly started sharing all of tie, to keep shit as a brand. How do you stand out from all the other names and tie the King shit that was on the internet. So we really work out again, step one, who’s your customer? What are their names? Step two, what content meets their needs? And step three, do you need to completely change the strategy that you’ve always done because the world has completely changed. And if you do that, so, okay. But you’ve got to put the time and effort into changing it up, get the people behind the brand on the camera and get them sharing this content with their followers, because that is, what’s going to take these groups that is, what’s going to see your business. Boom. When a lot of business businesses struggling.
Yeah. I would love to get your case. So this was one of my pet peeves. I have many pet peeves on social media, as we know one of my pet peeves. And this is something that it’s funny because you say this because you saw this all the way through that. Some brands have got this very, very prescribed way in which they approach Instagram fucking contrived is what I call it. There’s this very, very prescribed way. And it’s like, we’re going to do one pink post and then one pineapple and then one pretty tile. And then I’m going to make sure that the color I like I’ve seen some beautiful camps that are really aesthetic and color balanced and choreographed. And they’re just, they’re beautiful. And that’s that whole visual of the account works with the visual of the brand and the aesthetic. But for some brands, they are so tightly wound and held onto, but the account looks a certain way and we’ve always put the pink post next to the pineapple next to the quote tile. We can’t deviate from that because it won’t look the same. What’s your opinion on that sort of heavily prescribed, heavily scripted looking Instagram versus, you know, if they do have to do something radical, like change up their strategy for, you know, a world global crisis, how do brands approach that or do they kind of stay in the similar tracks that they’ve sort of done to keep that sort of look and feel that they’ve created?
Hmm. It’s a really good question again. Is it what your customer wants? Is it helping them for you to share a pink tile with a pineapple afterwards? Um, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with completely changing the way done things, because this is a new time we are living in. I hate to say it, but it’s so, it’s so true. We’re living in unprecedented times. And what works before to get you to this point is not going to necessarily move you forward. And I think so many people get caught up in, yes, the aesthetic has to follow this exact pattern. Well, is that making you cells? Is that getting you engagement? Is it getting your results? If it is then great. Keep going with your pink tile and your pineapple. If it’s no, then stop there. Remember Instagram is a visual platform. The visuals are the beginning of everything.
So if your engagement is down, if your sales are down, if your Dan’s down, people are not converting, start with a visual, how can you change it? Do you need to change it? And if you need to scrap it completely and start again, that’s fine. You know, all people don’t give a shit Taya Swift before full. She was launching her. Um, I can’t remember which album it was, but she archived every single post on her Instagram. Now the world went nuts, but they didn’t say, Oh my God, I missed that post. They were like, Oh my God, something’s coming. What is it? So people might care about your past police. Instagram is all about, instead what’s happening today, what’s happening now. Don’t be afraid to change things up. And if you don’t like the flow of it and you want to archive the rest of it, that’s fine. Do it. You gotta live in the now with Instagram, especially at the moment because the world is changing every single day. Yeah.
So what, what are some of the changes? Cause obviously like, um, Facebook is my, my, as I say, my genius zone is my sort of place. I love a good algorithm. Love, love a good e-commerce love me a pixel within Instagram. So like I know from, from COVID-19 the way markets have changed stuff, we’ve had like Facebook, well, not so much today, but it did have this sort of resurgence and people fell back in love with the platform and time on platform change and sales on platform changed and all of these things. And then, you know, Mark Zuckerberg decided to, you know, he had some weird policies and he’s not in favor of this week either. So, but we know that the, the usage of the platform increased live streaming increased those things. What were some of the things that have happened or continue to resonate from the way that we’re using Instagram now?
Right? So there was a massive increase in usage of Instagram live. So what Instagram did is they actually adjusted the fake chat. So Instagram live, you used to go live on Instagram. You go live up to an hour, then you could either save it to your camera roll. It could just disappear completely. Or you could post it to your story, which made it available for 24 hours. So Instagram updated beach, um, they no longer allow it to live on your story for 24 hours. But what they did allow is for you to share it as an IGT vape. Now, previously from your phone, you could only share it 10 minutes. It was 12 minutes, um, of video as an IGT bait. If it was now, you would have to do it from the computer. So what this did is it opened up that opportunity to essentially repurpose what was really engaging content. And you know, if it’s engaging when you’re live, because people are either watching and commenting or they’re not. So that I think was one of the real big opportunities. Um, Instagram also introduced a range of different speakers, especially the support local stick out, um, which allows you to tag any local. If you have any business accounts in your stories.
I think how many it was like every week, it’s like the world is falling apart, but it’s like instant. I was like, no, no, wait, we’ve got another sticker for you. You can order food. You can support a business. You can do it like,
Like during that time, thank God we were all at home doing nothing because I was literally every single day being like, okay, here are the poor updates for the last album. Houston, Instagram just went hands up, good on them. They jumped on the attention on the platform and, and, and they social platforms. They’re very good at, you know, that the success of social media as a marketing platform is not determined by the math of that. So any math gains that form is determined by the interaction by the user. So if they don’t constantly adjust, um, and meet the needs of the user, the platform is going to die. So, um, yeah, those are the really, really big ones. They’ve also introduced. What’s not wrong down in Australia yet, but this shock that each, that Instagram always had the product shopping. Right. But what they’ve done is they’ve combined the apps.
So Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp. So as a business, you create one shop, which you can then share amongst own platforms rather than setting up different things on each platform. So I don’t actually know any accounts that is rolled out on yet. Um, I know that it’s in testing stage so many interesting to see when that happens, like going at Lafayette press service businesses before Corona here at the start of the year, I got asked quite a bit, you know, what do you see coming in 2020? Or what do you hope to come in 2020? And I said, a book now surface, um, or now tap to show options, full services products. So I still keep my fingers crossed that I did raise some way or the other day. That’s something maybe becoming, um, the, obviously the same confirmation it, cause that’s going to be businesses that is going to be change up total game changer. Could you imagine like one tap to book from your post, not from the link in your bio from swiping up on your story, just tap to book from your post. This is a state service boom booked.
I know. And it’s that frustration as well. Cause obviously, you know, we’ve seen how Facebook and Instagram have moved towards retail and social commerce and in all the shop features and stuff, which they’re rolling out, which are incredible. But if you don’t have a physical product, you can’t use them. And it’s been number of businesses, especially now with COVID that are offering, they might have physical products, but we also have to find digital delivery of products. And the fact that the platforms can’t yet support a lot of that digital delivery stuff. And if you don’t have a physical out of the box product, you don’t get access to some of those features. Yes. Major bugbear makes me very sad.
Right? What’s the difference? What’s the difference on the back end to set it up?
Well, to be honest, there isn’t any difference in like, just cause this is where we specialize in these sort of like commerce platforms and things. There’s no difference to set it up lightweight WooCommerce, Shopify shop and link it all up and sync up back. And there’s no difference. It’s the actual commerce policy on Facebook. It does not allow or doesn’t support non-physical products. Now. I don’t know whether that’s some sort of like, you know, people are going to be concerned about, you know, that they’re not getting, you know, what they offered that it’s a way of keeping people safe in case somebody’s saying that they have an online product and that’s harder to verify than a physical product. I don’t, I don’t actually know the answer to this because it frustrates the hell out of me that I can do this all day for other clients. And yet I’m not allowed shop tagging shops like Instagram tags in there. I’m like, Oh, they want them to cool.
Frustrating. But anyway, yeah.
Well go keep praying to the gods and hopefully they’ll do that. Look, I want to sort of pimp double back on something. So I’m just, you know, well, I’ve, I’ve got some of your time. I would love to know your feedback from somebody who’s so ingrained in these platforms, Instagram TV, yay. Or nay. How much is that being utilized? Has that changed through Harvard? Cause it kinda came out. It was on its separate app and then it got blended and then there’s links to it. And then they got taken away and other tronics, like they don’t seem to found their flow or their rhythm yet with Instagram TV and how we use it. Hasn’t seen to sort of really it in yet.
I totally agree. It was a bit of a fuck show ball watch.
Yeah. I liked your definition of that. It was just an athlete function.
Well, it’s a fuck show launch.
It was worse threads. The threads was worse.
Oh, talk to like he’s got all these people using this platform. So you thought, Hey, let’s create another app and hope they use it. Why would they want it again? What’s the benefit to the user and they did integrate it too, but they didn’t really explain that properly. And then they kept changing around how you loaded the idea today. Honestly, the marketing team that the in charge of the awareness strategy for IGT, they totally popped out. So whatever happened there, I don’t know that it were drunk or something. Um, I think it’s fantastic, especially because Instagram uses and now trading the platform a lot more like you tube, you know, they they’re searching for what they want to learn. And as brands and as businesses for us to gain the trust of our customer, by showcasing now knowledge by a video that’s longer than 15 seconds that disappears after 24 hours or one minute on your feed, when you really can’t get enough out.
It’s incredible. And also the option to be able to add a clickable link in the caption of an RGB TV. However, I feel like as a platform because the release was so convoluted and because they keep chopping and changing how it works, they’ve lost the trust of people to invest their time into learning more about it. Because I think people are just like, that’s probably gonna change again. Yeah. Um, Oh, they’re just scared of it. Cause I don’t fully understand it because it’s changing so much. So, um, yeah, that’s not fantastic. I think when she jumped on it, um, especially how an OJT baby can now be shared in your newsfeed and it leaves on your, um, profile fee just as a normal post at JTV actually has its own feed as well. But again, it’s just kept chuckling to change and chopping and changing. It should have made a plan, released it in app and been like, this is how it works. Go for an experiment. But I didn’t, I fucked it up. They were like, this is how it works today or nobody’s using it. Okay. I was going to do it this way. Oh, nobody’s using it like that. Oh, we’ve got to do it this way. And people would just like, you know what, I’m just going to stick to normal posts and stories. Yeah.
Like obviously the whole Facebook, Instagram push towards video, you know, we know they want to take on YouTube. We know that’s the reason behind Facebook watch and video creators and monetization on the platforms. We get all of that stuff. But yeah, Instagram TV has always been that kind of space. And as much as I love, you know, I’m a divert Facebook check. I love the platforms. I love what they do. I’ve always looked at the IETV product and gone. Okay. I just, I haven’t because it’s just been so
Yeah, but you know, now they’re introducing ads within IGT bitty where creators can earn money from IGT V but I get like, I get it. And I think it’s fantastic for the people who have the time into using it. But YouTube was one why YouTube hasn’t really changed as a platform, since it was introduced. So it gives people a chance to get on the platform, understand the platform and then feel confident that when they use it, they’re going to come across, you know, if they use it well, they’re going to come across exactly the same as their biggest accounts on the platform, whereas on IGT, baby, because it keeps chopping and changing so much. It’s, it’s scary for people to experiment with, you know, well, not even scary, it just not worth the investment because of the lack of return because they don’t fully understand the reach. Um, and the conversions that it can give them. Yes.
Yeah. Well, I’m going to say, I’m going to still stay on the fence with ID TV. Um, I would love to say it like, you know, we know video is so huge and social, we know the platforms push towards it, but, and you know, stories amazing. I mean, obviously they rip the idea of Snapchat, but pretty groundbreaking in the way that they’ve done it and used it. Um, but yeah, I GTB I’m still on the fence with, cause I’m just like, I just, I don’t, I don’t all right. What do you think? So out of all of this now, obviously COVID-19 the global pandemic, the effects on the economy. They been brutal for some businesses. Like it’s been, it’s a global tragedy and it has been brutal, but has it’s forced us to change. What do you think are some of the positives businesses can take out from this whole experience,
It deeper connection and understanding of the customer if they’ve done this the right way and what their customers need. And I also want appreciation for the customer. Again, the customers that have stuck by them, um, and been able to, or they’ve been able to find other ways to serve them and support them. You know, if they’ve pivoted like a lot of beauty salons that were obviously shut down, but then I found ways to offer things online and obviously still took a massive hit, but we realized, wow, they have been able to support a community that are willing to stick by Australia’s. Um, I think for the world it’s been a full supple reassessment of values. And what’s important to you when you’re walking. I was sort of saying that the staff do you really love your business and if not, do you want to do something counts because here’s your app.
If you don’t love it and you never saw her way out, here’s your route. And I know people that have in this time said, I realized I just I’m killing myself over something that is not really bringing me that much joy. And it wasn’t until I was forced to stop that I realized, hang on, why am I doing these? So I think that’s a good, um, because we don’t get a lot of time to stop as business owners. I think for a lot of business owners that have been pushed into creating new revenue streams by utilizing online, um, services and offerings that now that they’ve also reopened retail and have an extra revenue stream, um, I think that’s fantastic because again, we were forced to think outside the box, something that you wouldn’t have the time to do previously. Um, what else? I think the, a ones really just being forced to racist values and what’s important to you and walk that is spend time with loved ones that you may not have previously had.
Unlike myself, my husband, um, works well. He stopped now actually because of programs that did work by photos. So in WUA it’s called fly in, fly out. So because that’d be way Sophie does a load of mind’s normal and a lot of people in WWI work away. So you fly away. Um, some people are on a roster. My husband was not because it is his own company. So he got stuck because all the flats got canceled and got stuck to the point. He actually ended up having to drive that, um, cause he just couldn’t get on a flight. So we got to spend time to get after all of that, back to that point, it was very much like this. Yes,
You’re watching a lot of tiger King. You’re watching a lot of time for Kenny.
It’s just an opportunity to slow down and reassess, which lots has never really given us the full
Very, very true and you know, to catch up on some great Netflix series, you know, tiger King was just one of them. Right? The last question I’m going to give you for a second is what is your best piece of business advice that you could give any marketer right now?
Ooh, don’t be afraid to experiment. If something is not working, you’re not quitting. You’re acknowledging that it’s not what the customer wants. Try something else. There’s so many strategies and so many platforms it’s so much you can test and try what works for one, even if on the surface level, everything about the business saying the same is not going to work for somebody else. I am me and I’ve worked with so many marketers and social media managers do that. Don’t fully understand the platform, insights that the platform insights, depict, everything that you need to know about how to grow a brand, invest your time into getting to know every single aspect of insights in as much detail as possible, because that is what is going to make you a good social media marketer and be able to get your clients results. If you get your clients results, they tell all the people how you got the results and ultimately that time this is for, okay,
And you have a, you have your social club and it’s a training platform that people can tap into. How do, how do people end it listening to this kind of get access to that and do some more training or upskilling with you?
Yes, come on down. So the social club is fully online, so it can be anywhere in the world. You can access it anytime of the day. Any day of the week involves a lesson per week on social media, if you’re in the membership. So, um, we, we did follow her program until coven hit. And then, like I said, we had to completely change our strategy to ensure that I was teaching whatever was relevant that week on Instagram. So the social club allows you to stay up to date with whatever is relevant, all of the platform changes and how to implement them actively in business to get results for yourself and also for your clients I’d involved a lot with. And I would meet every week as well. The way you can ask questions and get feedback in real time. Um, on the other end of that, I have the social club on my course. So the Academy, so the Academy is instant access to 13 webinars. I’m stepping you through how to create launch and grow a business specifically using Instagram and again, how to mesh out the results to, to ensure that you continue growing. So it just depends where you’re at in your business, um, what you need, whether you want that accountability in that ongoing support or whether you just want to smash everything out to get everything up and running or fixed or sorted out as fast as possible. Um, yeah,
I’m going to say guys, as you know, when you do a social media training course, just bear in mind in six months, time about 50% of that course is probably not going to be up to date and having some sort of access to ongoing training and like updates on the plat. Like you can say, like, as Brooke said previously, like four updates in a day from Instagram. So access to things that give you continuous training is always a really, really good, like get the foundations nail and learn what you need to do. But accessing that ongoing support mentorship is so, so important to actually, you know, stay on top of this industry because it does just, it literally changes overnight sometimes.
And the practical implementation that comes with it too. I think you could read up about the changes or you can, you know, get alerted about any updates, but the alert doesn’t come in, someone testing them, working out what works, working out what doesn’t. Um, and that’s what we provide in the social club to always everything I’ve teach from when I first started my business, I didn’t want to just become one of these people that like seminar people. I wanted to say, okay, this is what’s happened. This is how you can implement it. And they add the ideas that actually work and get results. So that’s sort of really big about in the social club as well. These are the changes. This is exactly how you implement it. And this is how you a strategy, which is proven to get results because it’s Walt’s work information.
Awesome. So guys, we’re going to put all of the links on the details of that into the show notes, obviously. Um, so you’ll be able to reach out if you don’t find, um, Brooke, she’s all over Instagram, let’s be honest. You’re going to find this trick will ever Instagram cause they’re a cancer phenomenal, but we’re going to put all those details in so you can touch base with Brooke, Brooke, thank you so much for your time today and all of your insights and knowledge around the Instagram platform. As we say, it is a, just an absolute based of a platform now for marketers to really get their teeth into. So I think some very valuable insights in that one. Thank you so much as always guys, thank you. As always guys, questions, comments, feedback, send us a PM, send us a DM, jump on the email and let us know what you want to hear from next time. I will be back with you next week with another awesome guest, looking at what we do now in the next chapter