The Summary

Video marketing is a fundamental part of all social media strategies  and this week on The Gospel of Social Media Lynsey is joined by Video Marketing Strategist and Media Expert Ben Amos from Engage Video Marketing.  Lynsey and Ben discuss the changes and benefits of live video, where marketers should focus before stepping in front of the camera and why video is still the foundation of your online strategy.

The Guest

Ben Amos

Ben is a passionate online video strategist, video producer, international speaker and consultant working with savvy brands across the world to connect them to their ideal audiences through effective online video marketing. As host of the Engage Video Marketing Podcast, and creator of the Online Video Strategy Blueprint Ben’s mission is to help other creatives, marketers, entrepreneurs and video producers better understand how to attract, engage and convert audiences online with video.

The Episode

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The Transcript

Lynsey  (00:00):

Welcome back to another episode of the next chapter, which is our special 10 part series on the gospel of social media, where we are meeting with some of the greatest minds in marketing, talking about all things marketing in this new chapter, post pandemic, how life has changed in 2020 and what we actually need to do now. And so today I’m super pumped to have on, because this is just the biggest side of digital at the moment. And I’ll find anybody who says otherwise, I’ve got Ben Amos here who is an absolute guru in terms of video marketing, video strategy, and how to tackle communications through video media and formats in the on line world. And I’ll keep saying this. And as a diehard, Facebook check video is where it’s at in terms of our marketing and our messages and anybody who’s not doing video does not have a current social media strategy. So I’m already on the team band. I’m already on the team, but I’m super keen to hear more from you. So I’m Ben, if you want to actually just introduce yourself to sort of the listeners and give us an understanding of like what you do within this industry. Cause you do some pretty incredible stuff.

Ben (01:42):

Sure. Thanks for having beyond that Lindsey. It’s awesome to be here and yeah, so a little bit about me. My name is Ben Amos. I run a video strategy agency here in Australia and we help businesses of all sizes be more effective with their video marketing and content production. And alongside that, I also a post podcast, podcasts, engaged video marketing podcast. I speak on stages around the world and I have courses and programs that help other people be more effective with their video marketing strategy. So I’m deep in the world of video and I love it. And I’ve been in various ways in video production will be in marketing for 11 years now. And yeah, it’s certainly something that is getting a little bit attention and has been over the last five, six, seven years. Um, but really since all of this craziness has happened in the world, I think we’ve, I mean, before we hit record here, Z, uh, we’ve talked about how many calls wait doing it. It’s just how often we’re showing up on video. And I think anyone listening is feeling that right yet the compensation

Lynsey  (02:51):

Love it. You know, as I say, it’s, I think as well with all of the changes and all of the social platforms, like we know Facebook pushes and preferences, video, and that’s behavior. We know Instagram brought out, you know, Instagram, TV and stories, and they really pushed towards video. The use of, you know, our cell phones and mobiles and these things make us so much more inclined to communicate through video. And I think it’s an awesome thing for businesses because like it’s just a far more, I think it’s so much more of a direct and more of an interactive way to communicate with an audience. Um, so as I say, I’m, I’m I’m team video, I’m already sort of on it. Um, like this obviously 2020 has been math and I know everyone talks about I’m president at times, but there really isn’t a better way to describe it. This is just a world that we’ve never experienced and I’m not sort of used to living in. So I’m going to give you the really kind of bold and open question of okay, where to next, what are marketers doing now?

Ben (03:49):

But I think that that’s a big question.

Lynsey  (03:51):

Yup. As I like to throw that one in to begin with, just to really get into the box.

Ben (03:55):

Yeah. I think anyone recognizes that and people are using the term uncertain times and unprecedented and all of those words and it is kind of crazy that we really don’t know what’s next to be honest. So we can, we can as a bit yes. And we can make some assumptions and we can start heading in the right direction that potentially gets us to the right place. But you don’t really know. So what’s next. I think when it comes to video and video marketing and video for business is that I think that it’s only going to become more and more important in the way that we communicate and do business. You know, the reality is, is that the ways that we used to do business and potentially for the time being just simply can’t is that we used to do business face to face. We used to meet people. We used to communicate with people, you know, in person in the office or in the rooms that we were in. But now we’re doing that virtually. And so by necessity, as we said before, people need to embrace video because it allows that human connection will still take place when done. Right. So yeah, I think that there is going to be more and more video content across the board.

Lynsey  (05:09):

So what now, when obviously the sort of the main impact was felt across Australia and a lot of the world of this sort of the lockdowns and the restrictions and these things we saw huge changes of. So across the social platforms consumption online time spent Facebook kind of was in love. People love Facebook again. And then that changed again very quickly. What’s happened in the world of sort of video marketing and video consumption because of the pandemic.

Ben (05:36):

I think there’s two things at play here. I think number one is more video is being consumed. A YouTube watch times across the board are massively spiking and that continuing to, um, you know, video across every social media platform has been, uh, increasingly integrated over the years and even more so now as more and more platforms are starting to fast track some of their video offerings, open up more opportunities, change the way that they’re allowing people to interact them in platforms. So that’s kind of one thing there’s more consumption. And then the other thing there is, I think that the production of video content is actually the demand for higher quality video content is kind of shifting. And now it’s more about real content. It’s about using what you’ve got with games, using smartphones, doing video content in a way that is more real and take and the businesses that are really kind of embracing this. I think I’m really standing out and making a difference, um, from a video production company standpoint where a lot of what we do and traditionally have done for our clients is high end production crews and big cameras and all this kind of stuff that simply just isn’t happening right now, particularly globally diesel. So brands back, but yeah.

Lynsey  (07:01):

Do you still feel that brands should, if they’re looking at their marketing plan for this year? Yes. We’re, you know, quick and fast, you know, videos we can make ourselves and that sort of more real, but do you still feel that there’s a need for brands to actually invest in both strategies?

Ben (07:16):

I think there always has been. I think that, um, there’s absolutely still a place for higher production, high creative, that sort of thing. Um, and it’s, it’s where we use it and how we use it to attract customers at different stages of that journey to buy from us, you know, but when we get down to kind of community building and engaging with prospects and, um, using video in a way to, to influence the actual sale taking place, that’s where I think we can start to learn from those companies that are embracing the tools that they have at their disposal that are effectively using video as a supplement for the face to face sales meetings, the phone calls, the, um, networking events that people, people were used to kind of build the connections. So yeah, there’s a place for both. And I think that that’s always the way it has been, but now it seems more kind of clear.

Lynsey  (08:15):

Yeah. Cause a lot of, uh, we get that, we get questions from a lot of clients. A lot of students we work with it’s like, do I still need the high quality? Can I just do this? I was like, you can do like an iPhone can do so much, but there is sometimes a need to sometimes step back and work with a bigger creative team or a bigger, I think as well. It’s nice to actually work with other people, like from a strategy side of things and how they actually look at things and approach that you couldn’t even think of sometimes when you’re just on your own iPhone and you know, at home with using cam and trying to do of this stuff. So with, with everything that’s changed, obviously if online video is the way that we, we now are forced to communicate, what would, you would have three of pieces of advice you’d give for marketers are now sitting back looking at their 20, 20 marketing plan in terms of how they use video, what they would need to do to embrace her change, that kind of stuff.

Ben (09:06):

I think the first thing that market is in even business owners who don’t consider themselves marketers, um, they really need to be focused on showing up, you know, like now is not the time to, to cancel your marketing, to pull back to kind of hide in your shell and just kind of white things out. What is happening wherever you’re listening from. I think by showing up and using video is one of the best ways to do that because you can just be in front of people digitally. Um, and the reality is, is that when you’re top of mind, people are more likely to engage with you.

Ben (09:44):

You know, you think about areas that are still locked down or restricted as far as movement and business and that sort of thing. There’s just not as many people like driving down the main street and, you know, wandering down the street, it’s their day to day. So they’re not walking past your shopfront or your billboards or your physical world advertising, but they are in those digital spaces. They’re on social media, they’re on YouTube, they’re engaging in that way. So now’s the time to show up and show up authentically and, and be human and provide the information that people want to know from you. And to help them know that your you’re in it with them, you know? Um, so just be human and allow video to be that vehicle that allows you to show up and be,

Lynsey  (10:37):

I think it’s, do you think that people still kind of have this thing about self-censoring and that there’s like a hesitation? I shouldn’t, I’m not going to be, I shouldn’t do that. That that’s one of the reasons businesses don’t get involved with video.

Ben (10:51):

Yeah. I think that’s people are always and always have been afraid of being on camera. It is, it’s fairly confronting at times, but the thing is the more you look, the more you do it, the more comfortable you get. And I think if many people would just sit back and take a moment and reflect on just how often they’ve been on a video call, for example, whether it resumed Skype, FaceTime over the last six months, then they’re already have spent more hours with their face on camera then maybe that previously in the years prior. So simply by doing that, you’re already starting to become more comfortable showing up and doing so in your marketing, not in a one to one vehicle, it really just, you need to approach it the same sort of way. It’s just know what value you want to share. Show up, be yourself, talk to camera much like we’d been doing in a zoom call and done many times. And, um, and just get it out there, you know? So yes, people are fearful of being on camera, but the only way to get over that is to just do more of it, you know? Yeah. We’re already doing it.

Lynsey  (12:04):

Yeah, we are. And it’s amazing as well. I think that the power of just being yourself and the power of just humility, and I remember taking some clients of mine through it and it was the first they’re beauty therapists and they were thinking this, I was like, actually, let’s just do a live. Let’s just take people through what this treatment actually looks like. Let’s just do it live. Let’s just try it. And they were both laughing. And at one point she dropped the camera on her face and she’s trying to show this thing and there, and it got so much interaction and so much attention because they weren’t trying to be perfectly polished presenters. They weren’t by any means of that, but they were very much themselves. And there were, you know, really lovely, really endearing sort of warm PayPal. And that just translated so well through the video from this life that they were just laughing about the fact that they couldn’t get it and couldn’t hold this one strong to hold of laser and do a treatment and once the other way. And it was just, but it became such a powerful thing that it actually really worked for their business. And they continued that strategy that there is a parent just getting on a, not it not being perfect and it not being okay.

Ben (13:07):

Yeah. And I think critical though is really knowing what value you want to share. So I definitely don’t encourage people just to, to go live or just turn on their camera and start making video content, because that’s what we’re saying you need to do. Um, but without an understanding of the value that you want to share for the audience, for the ideal audience, who’s going to watch that who potentially is your ideal customer. You know, so whether that be writing down some dot points before you press go live on a platform or whether it be, you know, knowing what the key takeaway you want to share with someone, you know, otherwise it’s just noise and there’s another noise, you know? Um, so definitely understand the value that you want to share before you create a piece of content.

Lynsey  (13:50):

And, um, I want to kinda like dig a little deeper with that one with you, if it’s okay. Cause live video, like obviously we’ve seen videos growing all platforms and things, but definitely when a lot of restriction things happened, PA live was the biggest thing. Like Facebook actually re diverted its engineers to support the live platform because it would just getting so much usage of people wanting to, to feel like they were talking to people and feel like they were actually communicating and being heard. What are some of the tips that you could give companies about going live or are there certain criteria or things you think people need to really examine before they go live? Cause you’re right. There is just a lot of noise. Am I pack people alive? Is where people sit there going, I’m just going to sit here and wait for five minutes until like 20 people jump on the call that I’m going to say hi to each individual person. And I’m sat there for seven minutes going, I haven’t got anything from this yet. What are you, what are you doing? So what is your, obviously the expert insights? What do you feel are ways we need to consider life? Yeah,

Ben (14:47):

Yeah, sure. I mean, I can share some top level kind of tips, practical tips for doing your first live. We’re doing a live video better. Um, but I think the critical thing is understanding the strategy behind your life first. So it’s about understanding why you’re going live. Like I said before, what value are you going to share? In other words, just be simple, simply clear on at the end of this broadcast, it is be a piece of content to create, what do I want that person watching to do think or feel, you know? So I think about those three things. Do I want them to think about something different? So teach something. Do I want them to feel about something? So actually share a story or communicate, um, you know, some sort of emotional message to someone. What do I just want them to do something?

Ben (15:37):

Is there an action, a specific call to action that I want off the back of these. So get really clear on that right before you do anything else, once you clear on that and kind of, and like I said, it might be some dot points or a couple of moments and frameworks of information that you’re going to share, whether you walk someone through a process, so you share three tips about something, or you tell a story, that’s the foundation of getting a strategy behind what you’re doing first and foremost. Next, you need to think about practically, how am I going to do this? So that it’s actually a valuable piece of content because the real value in a live video is in the replay viewing. So for so many people, particularly if you haven’t got a huge community around you or MSCI following you actually ongoing to get significantly large amount of people, joining you a lot of strain in many cases.

Ben (16:30):

And that can be the flighting for some people, it can be like, well, I did a lot for you and two people showed up. So what’s the value in that? Yeah. I kind of think of live video as the many businesses as being just a form of rapid content creation. It’s a way of creating a video without worrying about production and editing and that sort of thing. You can just simply set it up, press go to life and you’ve got a piece of content. Absolutely. Yep. So when you think about the rapid content creation, when you think about the longer life span of that piece of video content, so say pier is to start your video, addressing me watching. So recognize that seconds of your videos. When someone who’s watching later, when it’s a recorded video, when you fate, that’s where they’re going to either keep watching or they’re going to go ask me.

Ben (17:20):

So I get straight to it’s like share some sort of value, right from the outset or welcome people are watching on the green light. And then you can start to, maybe you can shout out a couple of nights of people who are joining live. Cause that’s the benefit of live is there’s an interactivity people joining live feel like, well, I’m here. Not part of something. So do that, but definitely like silence. You don’t collect every single night or have these little side conversations that aren’t relevant to the point to the broadcast. So it gets to the point then welcome any people who are alive and then share your value, get straight into the value that you want to share. Um, depending on the type of live stream, if it’s an ask me anything or a Q and a to talk live stream, then yes, you want to kind of engage with the questions and answer them as they come through.

Ben (18:09):

But for many, if it’s a, if you want to share some value, then you know, I would say specifically, call out something like said, I can see your questions coming through and then share this value first. And then I’m going to get to the questions at the end. So encourage people to hang on and the questions will be answered later. That way you don’t need interrupting your flow of the information you want to share. And also, you know, just don’t go on forever. Don’t waffle on because some reason when people alive, they just kind of just speak for much longer than they need to, to deliver the value, that thing that they want to. So that’s why I haven’t been destruction replacements. So hopefully that’s that it

Lynsey  (18:49):

That’s. Yeah. That’s awesome. Is there any sort of like people, again, we like to squash rumors and myths on this podcast because I can’t stand, I think they’re quite destructive for the industry. Is there any sort of like set time in which, cause I know a lot of people are like, Oh you’ve got to go live for more than 17 minutes or it doesn’t work or you’ve got to go live for more than four. Like, is there anything in terms of the platforms where there’s a suggested period of length of a live road cost or is it really more about how long do I actually need to get my information across?

Ben (19:22):

Yeah. I mean, it really comes down to what’s your purpose of going live? So if it is rapid content creation, then you probably don’t need to worry too much about how many lives you as you get on at a specific time. So if it’s, if you can deliver the value you want to deliver in three minutes, then do a three minute a year or one minute video. If that’s the purpose of doing your life is just to create that piece of content. However, there’s certainly some best practice around duration for live videos, depending on the platform. If you want to give the algorithm some time to show it to enough people and that sort of thing. And typically it is, you know, longer than 10 minutes in most cases, LinkedIn live for example is a live platform. It’s getting a lot of, uh, a lot of interest, like mostly because not everyone has access to it.

Ben (20:15):

LinkedIn specifically says LinkedIn live is all videos longer than 10 minutes. I encourage you to go longer than 10 minutes. Um, Facebook lives, similar sort of thing, but the results there really, depending on the size of your audience. So, you know, if people are saying that you need to go from a minimum amount of time in order to get the maximum amount of you as it’s really irrelevant, it’s small based on the size of your audience, the size of the people who follow you on your platform. So yeah, I think you just need to think about what do you, what are you trying to achieve? You know, but definitely don’t just feel dead lawfully.

Lynsey  (20:57):

Here’s my story from today and here’s my cat and uh, yeah, so we’re just gonna shout out. Yeah. Oh yeah. We’ve seen a couple of those. I have to say going on with, obviously everybody’s sort of jumping onto the platforms, any preference, do you have a favorite platform or do you think there’s a platform that works particularly well with live video? Because obviously every platform you can go live on now and it’s Instagram or it’s that, or is it dependent on meeting the audience?

Ben (21:23):

It, I mean the answer to this is always changing. It’s the advice I would give is always changing based on her doggie to me. Um, I think that it’s somewhat of a personal preference or it’s based on what’s your strategy behind the live platform that you’re using? Um, I’ve been really enjoying, like didn’t live lightweight a lot of my audience, the target audience for what it is that I do in sale and the services we provide are active on like D sorry. And there’s a lot of attention on LinkedIn. Like, so when I was working well, um, Facebook live is, is always going particularly for the B to C type businesses and that sort of thing. Um, it gets a lot of preference in the newsfeed. So in the algorithm, so Facebook live is certainly still one of the, one of the big ones. Um, LinkedIn, sorry, Instagram live is really interesting as well.

Ben (22:13):

Like they, because they’re changing the way that the way that it functions. So the replay for Instagram live used to be basically available within the stories platform, but now it’s kind of more directly linked to Instagram TV, which is your own perform library of content on Instagram. So the benefit now to doing a Instagram live and putting a bit more value behind it, because it’s a longer term piece of content that can continue to be engaged with even after that 24 hour period. So, you know, I think that it depends on where your audience is and what your strategy is on what you’re doing, what you’re trying to achieve and then deer eat from it.

Lynsey  (22:54):

Amazing. Awesome. I know Instagram is one of those ones that I think they’re still figuring out what to do with Instagram TV, um, and how that platform is actually working and what they do with the content there. So it’s one of those platforms. That’s still being very, very fluid since it launched and many iterations and many updates that they’ve had to make switch, try and really get that one to go. So it’s interesting to see that that’s one of its current changes to move live video into IETV.

Ben (23:24):

Yeah. And I continue to, to adapt and change things. I mean, I think Facebook is still trying to figure out what they’re doing with their watch platform as well. Um, and Instagram TV, the separate, but all owned by the same company, but they’re, um, you know, I think they are just trying to, they’re really going head to head with YouTube. That’s that’s the, the way I’m saying that they’re trying to take creators from YouTube and have people create content specifically for their platforms either on watch or on Instagram TV and yeah, I think it will continue to change announcer.

Lynsey  (23:59):

Yeah. I mean, yeah. When we saw last week, the mother release of the stars feature on Facebook now, so you can send tokens by credits and give your favorite creators stars as a way for them to monetize their content, as well as all like interstitial videos and stuff that they started to bring in. So yeah, we’ve, we’ve said it before, Facebook’s going after it, once we, the next YouTube, Netflix, Amazon the same. All right. So the pandemic, obviously it shook everybody. It’s been not like we, we’d not women on a serious sort of make light of things or to really not recognize this has been a really traumatic experience and a traumatic time for businesses and for people, you know, involved in this pandemic. But what do you think have been some of the opportunities that have come out from this time period for marketers and in particular to this sort of video sort of world?

Ben (24:53):

I think the, those that have really embraced and pivoted and adjusted and adapted are those businesses that are looking at new ways of serving the same audience, you know, the audience that maybe they can’t reach it the same way. You know, the opportunity specifically around video is those that are really bracing the video tools that have been around for awhile. But I think now we’re even more important, particularly in, from a marketing sensing more of the middle of the funnel and the bottom of the funnel. So we’re kind of, people are pretty confident and clear on what the top level awareness kind of marketing, you know, like advertising campaigns, that sort of storytelling, promotional videos, that sort of stuff, right. That’s typically what would be top of the funnel from a marketing sense, but really where people are embracing it. It’s where they’re integrating video into the sales conversations, where they’re integrating one-to-one or personalized video into their communication with prospects, where people are looking at ways to use video to improve the client or customer experience when they’re actually I’ve already bought from you.

Ben (26:06):

How can you encourage them to have a better experience than your brand and therefore refer others to you or buy from you again, or rebuy rebuy from you use that word buy again, because it’s often that low hanging fruit, particularly at this time when it feels like you’re, can’t easily find new customers, but there’s often a lot you can do to sell to your existing customers. If you think about having them, engage them, bring them into your story and do that trip video in a way that makes them feel valued. And there’s a lot awesome tools that you can use that can do that quite simply and often free

Lynsey  (26:49):

It that that’s one of the areas it always amazes me is that we look at a funnel and a strategy and we go brand awareness version thing and we stop. We don’t then go, okay, well, how do we create our customers into advocates and how do we actually write them into, you know, lifetime customers? How do we increase that? And I think a lot of the things you mentioned about, you know, can you use video content, like where in your strategy is a perfect place to bring in, you know, content that actually helps them maximize really, really like advocate, love your brand, not just convert once. And that’s such a, I think a missed opportunity before the pandemic, I think marketers, but I think a lot of people have with everything that’s going on, I’ve gone. Okay. Where can I find these customer? Can I be sales from? And I think that that ongoing communication strategy with customers is so, so important to really look at.

Ben (27:40):

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it does tie into the fact that, you know, ultimately people are scared, can consumers, you know, there is fear in a lot of ways, uh, across the board. So it’s much easier to sell to people who already have a relationship with you. So if you can really tap into that existing customer base and do so in a way that makes them feel valued and understood that you’re there for them, that they will spend money with you, you know? Um, and they’re more likely to spend money with you because they’ve already bought from you before. So it’s easier. It’s a low hanging fruit. It use video in a way to reach those people.

Lynsey  (28:21):

Amazing. Awesome. Any one? I mean, you’ve given us so many great actual tips and so many, you know, really clear, like what I hear really clear, it’s just strategy and understanding the why before producing a piece of content is so, so key, any sort of, one big piece of advice that you would give to marketers sort of moving forwards now.

Ben (28:47):

Yeah, I think, I think it really comes down to really understanding what is marketing too. And I know it’s bothering me and say a hundred times before and market is getting the importance of really understanding their audience. But so often I talk to businesses who only have a generic understanding of who it is that they sell to. And now your marketing needs to be, I mean, it always has, but right now these uncertain times is now when you’re marketing, it needs to be, it needs to feel more personal. It needs to feel like it’s, you’re talking directly to me as a consumer and you get me, you know what, I’m key people. It’s keeping me up at night and you, you know, you know, what’s going through my hands. That’s where the marketing can be really impactful. When you think of it that way, then you can’t really look at your marketing as a, as one funding. You know, it’s kind of like everybody funds three in the same way. You need to think much more strategically, be much cleverer and use video in a way that humanizes that whole journey. So it’s a concept as in, there’s no easy answer to that, but just think more, just be a smart marketer and really understand your audience better than they know themselves.

Lynsey  (30:08):

Awesome. Ben, how can, if a lot of people listening to this are going to go, okay, these are their nuggets falling for them. That they’re really going, okay, I’ve got to get more into this. There’s some real things I know I need to work on my strategy. How can they get more access? Because I know you have a training course. I know you’ve got some great resources. How can they work either more with you on that high level, strategic stuff or learn more from what sort of you’re bringing into the industry?

Ben (30:33):

Yeah, sure. So a few different ways. I’m probably, well, the home to everything is engaged, video marketing.com. That’s where you find links to anything. Um, if you’re a podcast listener, which I assume you are listening to this one, then free learning from my engage with your marketing podcast. I’d love to invite people to join me over there. Um, but otherwise, uh, best place to jump in on some free training is I have a course that I call foundations and it’s really just getting the groundwork for video marketing strategy for your business. So if you had to engage video marketing.com/foundations, you can jump in on that free shortcut.

Lynsey  (31:09):

Awesome. And guys, I’m going to drop all of the links and all of these things into the show notes and into obviously all of the, the podcast page. So you’ll be able to follow those things up. If you do want to reach out and work more with Ben and I would really encourage you to do this because video is like, we can just see it. It’s on every platform, every social channel, every, every way, video is not a component of your marketing that you can ignore. And it’s not a component of your marketing now that you can’t, it’s not just something you just create and throw up there and do this. It’s got a such as, you know, a strategy to drive it, to make it, to perform that, you know, get on board with it and learn how to do it. Well now with that. Awesome. Ben, thank you so, so much for joining us today. Any final words for anybody?

Ben (31:58):

No, I think I’d just reiterate what you said. Video 2020 is a year of online video, 2015.

Lynsey  (32:05):

I was going to say it’s been a while, but if you still haven’t come to the pharmacy.

Ben (32:09):

Exactly. So now’s the time to really focus on what are you doing with video and do it strategically. So, yeah. Thanks. That’d be on Lindsey.

Lynsey  (32:17):

Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate the time as always guys, if you have questions, comments, feedback about this episode about the show sends a PM,or a DM then jump into the show notes, grab all of those amazing links and I will be back with you next week with another awesome guest talking, all things marketing into the next chapter.

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