The Summary

In episode 9 of the special 10 part series – The Next Chapter Lynsey is joined by Jenn Herman the worlds leading Instagram Marketing Blogger and Social Media Expert talking all thing Instagram, the new product Instagram Reels, how marketers need to show up on Social Media and what to avoid as we move into the next chapter of digital and social media marketing in 2020.

The Guest

Jenn Herman is a social media consultant, speaker, and globally recognized Instagram expert. She is the forefront blogger on Instagram marketing and her blog, Jenn’s Trends, has won the title of a Top 10 Social Media Blog over multiple years. She is a sought-after and international speaker providing tips, resources, and training for organizations of all sizes that need to structure their social media strategies. Her business background includes Administration, Sales, Human Resources, and Marketing and she enjoys bringing all these skills together to help you grow your business. Jenn has been featured in Inc., Fox News, BBC News, Yahoo Finance, HuffPost, The Verge, CBS Radio LA, and numerous other podcasts and publications. She is the author of “Instagram for Dummies”, “Instagram for Business for Dummies”, “The Ultimate Guide to Social Media Marketing”, and “Stop Guessing: Your Step-by-Step Guide to Creating a Social Media Strategy”.


The Episode

Listen on Apple Podcasts
Listen now on Spotify Podcasts
Listen on Google Podcast

The Transcript

Lynsey  (00:00):

Hey guys. And welcome back to the gospel of social media. So this is going to be part nine. Can’t believe it’s gone this boss of our special 10 part series, which we’ve called the next chapter. So this is about looking at how we move forwards and how marketing has changed in 2020, which to be honest, it’s just being a batshit kind of a year ago and I am so, so excited to have this lady join us. So I first sold Jen a couple of years ago, actually at social media marketing world, presenting an old things, Instagram and I not only fell in love with one her presenting style on the information that she delivered, which was amazing, but also her affinity for shoes was something that I could just connect with on so, so many levels. And then as soon as you said that I was like half staring at your shoes and then listening and I was listening like these really are

Jenn (02:14):

Good shoes.

Lynsey  (02:16):

Um, so we’re so delighted. Happy, awesome, awesome, incredible world. Renowned Instagram blogger, forefront of Instagram education. Jen Herman from Jen’s trends join us today. So I’ll let Jen actually properly introduce herself and what she does in the industry. Cause I always get really excited in these intros and I forget things. So I’ll let Jen tell us more about what makes you so awesome and the world of Instagram and you do, and you’ve got a book coming out as well. Another one. Yeah.

Jenn (02:43):

I just love her energy. Little thing of like, this is awesome. Let’s just roll with that. Um, yeah. So gentlemen, with Jen strengths, um, I have a very small reach, huge of sexual issues. Um, which right now they’re all feeling very neglected. I have to admit

Lynsey  (03:00):

Open your wardrobe and just look at them inside a little bit.

Jenn (03:03):

I do well. So I have, I have a shoe wall in my room wall, so they’re right there. Well, they are feeling a little neglected and getting a little desperate. I feel bad for them, but they’re, they’re still fabulous. Yeah. Yes. So I, I, I’m typically known in the industry for my Instagram expertise. I am the world’s foremost blogger on Instagram marketing. It started seven plus years ago and no one was blogging about Instagram. I had fallen in love with the app and I had this little blog called gen strands and social media. And I started blogging about Instagram and because no one else was blogging consistently. And I was, I just started ranking on, I was on page one and people had invited me on podcasts and I was like, apparently I missed the credit person. Uh, so it was totally not a business strategy or plan. I’m really glad I pitched myself in that bandwagon though. It’s performing really well.

Lynsey  (04:01):

I was going to say, it’s, it’s a pretty significant platform on sale to me.

Jenn (04:08):

Like, you know, like fine or something.

Lynsey  (04:12):

You must be a little bit worried if you’re a tactile person right now, if you’re like, ah,

Jenn (04:17):

It’s funny. So let’s say talkers are like, it’s not the same and it’s not a competition and we can do this. We can do that. And I mean like that, you’re like diehard, like not letting go of that. So we’ll, we’ll have to see how it plays out over the next 45 days. Um, as well as, you know, the next number of months determining, you know, what the U S government does with it streaming, you know, what Instagram does with reels and all of that coming out. It’s going to be definitely an interesting shift for sure.

Lynsey  (04:46):

Yup. And I’m going to ask you, I’m going to let you see, I always get excited and then we go off on tangents, but I will let you probably introduce yourself. And then I’m going to ask you all about Instagram news.

Jenn (04:55):

Well, yeah, I blog obviously love, but Instagram. I also have my YouTube channel where I have a lot of videos, um, short form, you know, quick digestible content, all Instagram related, but I’m also a social media strategist. I work with clients of all sizes from solopreneurs up to, you know, major, you know, international organizations, helping them with their social media strategy. So not just Instagram, but social media in general, Facebook, other platforms and things like that. Uh, I do have a science background, so I actually have two science degrees, including a master’s in forensic science, which you know, is absolutely gonna put to great use as a marketer with Instagram. But yeah,

Lynsey  (05:32):

I’m clarified silversmith. I can make you a lovely pair of earrings or I can set you up for a really great Facebook retargeting.

Jenn (05:40):

Okay. That’s it. Um, but yeah, so it’s, it’s definitely been an interesting journey as you know, in terms of what I’m doing, but I always do pull in like a lot of exhibits. I doing mindset. Um, I do pull a lot of that into what I do and I mean, you’ve seen me speak at events and I’m really big on things like algorithm and the science behind Instagram, why it does what it does, how can we use it to our advantage? How can we test this to do more of what’s working? And I think that’s part of the reason I bring a unique perspective when I look at not just Instagram and social media in general is because I really do come at it, you know, for all my clients and all of my instruction as you know, sites and not just, well, it looks pretty, but here’s why it works and here’s how we can replicate it.

Lynsey  (06:22):

And that was one of the things I found. And I really took away from one of your sessions was the amount of insight that you had into how the platform works. Not just, Hey, look, we can color it. And it looks pretty and that’s, that’s kinda my pet peeve with Instagram. It’s like, look, it looks like it it’s like a matter of like a magazine. It’s beautiful. I’m like, does it work

Jenn (06:42):

Just when I have to laugh? Because I literally think the blog is up on my website. And I said how the Instagram algorithm works. And I wrote that two years before Instagram came out and said, this is how the algorithm works. And I just don’t like being like, you’re welcome. Yes. I know

Speaker 3 (07:00):


Jenn (07:00):

One thing I do. I dig into it. I really dive deep and figure out what’s working. And that’s, that’s my super power. Like, that’s just something I can do really well. And it was so reassuring when Instagram came out and they were like, this, this, this. And I’m like, that’s what I’ve been saying.

Lynsey  (07:15):

Does that moment of just like, it’s that moment of slight frustration as well though, when you get that coming out, you just like, be trying to tell you,

Jenn (07:25):

I’m saying this for two years and like, you know, 90% of the world isn’t listening to me, I’m like, how can I get you to listen to me?

Lynsey  (07:31):

Well, hopefully through more of these forums and podcasts and all the amazing speaking events you do, I, you have a book coming out as well. Like another one

Jenn (07:37):

I do. We have a new book, which is ultimate guide to social media marketing. I have four incredible coauthors on the book. Eric, you tell Mike Alton, Stephanie and Amanda Robinson, and it’s available for preorder. Now it will be shipping on August 25th and it’s available from all major book retailers. I sound like an infomercial, right?

Speaker 3 (07:59):


Jenn (08:01):

But it’s yeah, it, we’re super excited about this book and it really is the guide to social media. So we dive deep into so many different aspects, both platforms specific, but also in general, why content strategies work, why you need certain types of content, you know, best photos, size dimensions, all these sorts of technical things, as well as very kind of evergreen contextual content in terms of what works white works, what you should be doing. We have a section there on influencer marketing, which I know is something, a lot of people are more and more interested in it. And how do you use that effectively? So we will section in there on how you can partner with other people to help promote your brand. And so there’s a lot of really, really good stuff in that book. And if you want to go to social media, so social media book dot essay, jokey, we have the links to all the places you can buy it there.

Lynsey  (08:52):

We’re going to put that into the show notes as well as well. Jen’s contact details and things, which we’ll kind of get to at the end of this. Um, but yeah, we’ll make sure you get the links as well to, uh, to make sure everybody in Australia can grab that. And wherever you’re listening to also let me start to jump in with now. Obviously we, we called this series the next chapter and it’s kind of like, you know, the world has gone. It’s, it’s insane. And a lot of marketers have been under so much pressure in these last couple of months. And you know, these marketing calendars that we also did at the start of the year and we all felt excited about, and we’re looking at them now and it’s like, what, what are we going to do now? Kind of thing. And so I’m going to open with just that very broad question. Like, what do you think the next chapter of marketing is going to look like?

Jenn (09:38):

Well, for me, and I’ve been saying this for a while, but I think it’s even more important now is really understanding social media as the customer service platform. That it’s not a chance for you to go out there and just be like, Hey, we’ve got products for sale. People are reaching out to brands, especially now these social media, it may be direct message. It may be on a public post. It may be, you know, something in a Facebook group or something, but they’re reaching out to brands on social media when they want help. If something arrived damaged, if something, you know, didn’t deliver, if they don’t know how to use something, if they want questions about whether or not they should be buying this, they’re using social media to communicate with brands. And so many brands are still missing that opportunity, whether you’re outsourcing your social media to an agency and the agency isn’t responding or doesn’t know how to respond, or you’re not checking your notifications consistently enough, if someone is reaching out to you, you want to make sure that you’re using the opportunity for customer service. And I just literally had this happen last week. And it was such a funny experience where I saw an Instagram ad for something that I absolutely have never heard of had no need for my life, but now must absolutely have this.

Lynsey  (10:52):

It’s amazing how that algorithm works. Like you knew you could smell my credit card, had a balance on it and you knew I had to see that thing today. Yeah.

Jenn (11:00):

You were taking my mind. So of course I was like, this is what I want. Um, and it’s, it’s a kind of a science experiment girl thing for my daughter. It’s a STEM activity for my daughter. And so I go look at their website and I’m like, because I go to purchase now through Instagram, go look at their website. This is what I want. Put all my information. Well, it’s an Australian company and they can’t ship to the U S via online orders. So I’m like, this is not okay. I need, I need this product. So I sent them a DM on Instagram, within seconds. They replied to me, we worked out what the cost was going to be, which at that point I was like, I don’t care ship the thing. I was like, she was being so apologetic about the cost of the shipping.

Jenn (11:42):

I’m like, I don’t care. I want it just send me this. But we literally, we performed the entire transaction through direct message on Instagram in about 10 minutes, if they hadn’t responded in that way. I mean, if they’d responded within 24 hours, it probably would have the same outcome. But because I was in that moment, desperate for this thing that I had never before in my life, but they responded immediately. They gave me the information. I gave them my mailing address. They were like, okay, we, you know, we’ve sent you the PayPal request. I submitted it, paid, done, shipped it’s on its way to, and this literally just happened. And I was like, this is the epitome of customer service from social media. That was it. Is that groundbreaking? Is that going to, you know, change their revenue model? Cause I bought one thing, no, but I might go back and buy more. I’m going to tell more people about them. I’m going to, you know, do more because of this. And they managed to land that client all because they embraced customer service, which I think so many customers, so many brands are missing that customer experience. When it comes to social media,

Lynsey  (12:47):

It is incredible. The number of businesses that are like, Oh, can we just divert them? Just like your customer service center does not exist anymore. Nobody wants to get a DM that says call this number. I was like, they, they want to be able like, guess what? Your social media platforms, that is the first place somebody is going to go when they’re pissed off at you. That is that’s it. When someone’s pissed off at you, if you go with had a bad service, whether that’s justified or not, it’s going on your Facebook wall, that’s it. Or yeah, it’s going straight out there and we don’t, that’s it. And that’s how the game is played now. And that’s where your customer service team need to actually be trained in social media. That’s how you’re going to respond to

Jenn (13:25):

Do you have a call center or you have a customer service team. They need to be monitoring your social media. They need to be trained on how to handle and respond to content on social media. If you don’t have a customer service team, you are the customer servicing. You need to be paying attention and looking for that, those comments and questions and posts that you can respond to. And if you have an agency doing your work, they need to either need to be trained or they need to be able to communicate with you immediately when one of those requests come in so that you can handle it.

Lynsey  (13:53):

Absolutely preach loving it, loving it. Okay. So I mean, look, the COVID pandemic it’s, it’s had a huge impact in a lot of businesses. They’ve really had to shift strategies. They’ve had to move and sort of do things and from are just trying to adapt and do these things. Are there sort of three areas or pieces of advice or things that you would be encouraging marketers to embrace now as they move ahead into 2020?

Jenn (14:20):

Yeah. So embrace social media. Um, if that wasn’t the obvious, you know, check [inaudible] social media work with somebody who knows how it works. If you’re not comfortable with it, hire a consultant, hire an agency, hire an employee, not a contractor. Who’s, you know, 22 year old waiting for college to start back up, no hire somebody who was actually educated on how these things work. Because knowing how social media works and knowing how business works are two different things. And you want a social media manager who understands books, that they understand what sales mean, that they understand what marketing means that they understand customer service and all those sorts of things. So definitely obviously embracing social media. Another thing right now is live video. You know, I mean, zoom is now an adjective, right? It’s no longer I didn’t do. Alright. It’s a verb. I’m zooming with my friends.

Jenn (15:18):

It’s become a thing. And it’s because it’s live, it’s interactive. It’s a real, it’s immediate. And people are getting used to this, even though a lot of us in the industry may have been doing these online and live videos forever. Your customers are now getting used to it. So embrace live video, whether it’s live streaming into your Facebook page or your Facebook group, whether it’s going live on Instagram, or if you have access to LinkedIn, live YouTube live. Any of those sorts of things embrace the live video because a, your audience is more prepared for it now than they may have been five months ago. But B it’s such an amazing way to connect with your audience and actually show who you are. You know, you can’t edit out the flubs or, you know, when you say the stupid things or trip over your tall, or when the kid walks in behind you, it becomes a real, and that’s what people connect with.

Jenn (16:06):

Well, you know, we’re so programmed, when we see, you know, live video, we have an immediate connection now, like we’re understanding and we’re sympathetic and that’s an emotion you can’t fake. When you have a recorded video, that’s been, you know, polished and edited. You don’t know what that person went on a teleprompter. You don’t know if they took 20 takes or a thousand takes, you know, so why didn’t, you know, you can’t fake it. People get to really know who you are and trust your expertise as well. So it’s a great way to connect with your audience. And then the third thing I would say would be short for content. So things like stories, things like Snapchat, things like, you know, tick talk, Instagram reels, which just came out this short form content, whether you like it or not is here to stay. And I’m the first person to say, I am not about it.

Jenn (16:52):

Like I do not understand this club. I don’t like creating this, but I do because it is what people are doing. We’re seeing such a shift in direction towards this short form content that is quick it’s bite-sized, it has incredibly high recall rates. People are watching these videos or these short clips and they’re retaining all of that information, but they can scroll through your Instagram feed and they could be in your Facebook group and they will forget everything they saw. And they’ll remember what they saw in this short form content. So it’s a really unique way psychologically to connect with your audience. But it’s how people are consuming content. You definitely have to find ways to embrace it.

Lynsey  (17:31):

Yeah. It’s funny. I had a conversation with a client the other day and I’m like, well, we have to do to have to do like, you know, we’ve already got to do all the posting. We’ve got to do all this stuff and do we have to do stories? And I was like, if you do any, if you have to do anything, do stories like, because people want to see, they want to see your personal service. They want to connect with. I said, as well, you just literally have to take your phone out in that moment and capture something. You don’t have to plan it or scripted or upload it, or do any of those things. You might put a filter, you might put a little dancing, avocado GIF on it at the end of it. Like you can do some fun like that. That’s as much editing as you’re going to have to do to really start creating content.

Lynsey  (18:08):

It’s just capturing those things in the moment. Instagram reels, have you had it like, are you excited by this platform? I know. It’s just like, it’s literally just come out and I’m still going through this. Like pressing all the functions going. I don’t have anything to fill right now, but, but look, it does all this stuff. And it’s just me sitting, I’m sitting in is like listening to Carrie Underwood or something. And I was like, took a rail and I managed to post it and I’m like, okay, practice that one. What do you think on this platform? What do you think it’s going to do for Instagram?

Jenn (18:38):

I think it’s going to be a big deal. I don’t think it is a big deal right now. Um, much like when stories came out, it launched, I think not necessarily prematurely, but it doesn’t have the features and functionality needs to compete with ticked off, which is obviously what they’re trying to do. Let’s not beat around the Bush, but it doesn’t have a lot of the tools and functionality that tech talk has. It doesn’t have the discoverability and the Explorer functionality that tick taught has. So there’s still some things that need to be done, but they had to get it out. They had to get people using it. They had to get people excited about it, much like stories I expect. We’re going to see constant evolution of here’s more filters. Here’s more features. Here’s more stickers. Here’s more of this because stories is like every week they’ve updated something on me and I’m like, Oh my God, I can’t even keep up.

Lynsey  (19:29):

It’s like we needed another sticker. Thanks for us. You sure?

Jenn (19:35):

Right. So I think, I think the reels platform has a lot of potential. I think it’s great that they built it into the app because stories proved the only way to make it work is to put it in the app where people already are. I suspect at some point and I could be wrong. Um, I think we’ll see what becomes a blend of real sense stories because they’re essentially the same thing. Um, part of me is like if they get just added two or three of the real features to stories, everything would’ve been fine, you wouldn’t even have needed this whole separate other feature. Um, so I think that maybe over time, we’ll see the kind of blending of those two and one will go away and the other will stay and they’ll just merge all the features, but that’s, you know, way down the road right now, they really wanted to make a stand against Hitchcock.

Jenn (20:23):

And by doing so with a new feature, rather than just augmenting stories, that work. So, um, it’ll be interesting to see though. Yeah. How people embrace it. You know, what kind of content gets on there? It is restricted currently to up to 15 seconds, which is still not a lot of content, at least on stories. You can stitch multiple 15 seconds together. Your reels is one 15 hugs, that’s it? Um, and if you haven’t noticed I’m a little verbose. So for me to get something into 15 seconds is a little hard for me to achieve. I talk way too much.

Lynsey  (20:59):

I just supposed to be having to do like a million takes. Nope, Nope. Not again. Nope. Messed it up.

Jenn (21:06):

I think we’ll take like 86 takes on a freaking like would backward stories worth 15 seconds. I was like, Oh my gosh. Like, now that you can do the minute and it automatically cuts it for you. I was like, Oh, thank you.

Lynsey  (21:17):

Yup. Yup. I think that the instinct thing with the Instagram rails is that I’m so glad they haven’t, you know, they’ve learned from their past mistakes of like when they brought her Instagram TV and it was a separate app. And then they were like, Oh yeah, wait, people don’t want to separate out. They want one thing and they want one functionality. So I think the fact that they introduce it inside of the app and inside of a function, people already using is great. But again, it’s like looking at this going, is it a story or is it a rail? I don’t quite get it.

Jenn (21:47):

I’m I’m still trying to figure out like, cause with stories, they go to your stories and then they disappear for 24 hours. But a real can go on your feed and lasts forever. Or it can go to a story to spirit for 24 hours or it can, you know, but you can’t download it and you can’t save it for future. You’d like, there’s all these restrictions. And I’m like, this is way too complicated. Like stories are one thing. Feed is one thing like I GTD is kind of as like a separate little red headed stepchild over here on the side. And real is kind of, is trying to do everything. And I think that’s going to be some confusion for people is, am I posting it to my feed? And then it’s a vertical video, but it’s cropping to a square on the feed grid. Like it’s a lot that I don’t really think. Um, again, I think it will evolve over time. I think it was launched a little prematurely in terms of functionality and proper integration. So we’ll see some of that switch up over time. But for right now it’s, it’s fun. People are having fun with it. They’re trying it out. And you know, seeing how it works is so cool features and functions in there. For sure. It’s just what this looks like long term and how people start consuming that content will be interesting to see.

Lynsey  (22:54):

Yeah, absolutely. I’m just still playing around with all the filters. I’m just like, Oh, well this isn’t going to look like if I was made of flames. So like out of everything, you know, as things are changing, they’re starting to embrace what they’re using social media for. Cause I think that’s one of the things we’ve changed, what we use social media for, like you said, customer service, interacting with customers. It’s not just about let’s post something. That’s only really one aspect of social. Now there’s so many more pieces to it and sort of move on. What are the things you would say marketers need to avoid or will the change of all the things that are happening with social media? They should not be doing that they should pull back on.

Jenn (23:35):

Yeah. I mean, one of the things is posting too much. Um, I’m, [inaudible]

Lynsey  (23:43):

Five posting five a week is not a strategy.

Jenn (23:47):

Yeah. And then like, I don’t know, like, I mean I joke in exam like 2012 called and they want their strategy back. Like, you know what I mean? It’s gone to the days of check the box I posted to Facebook today. Like, no, that’s not how it works anymore. And algorithmically and content saturation and all these things are preventing your content from getting out there. And it really has to be high quality content that serves your audience, not you. And that’s kind of like would be the second part of that is stop selling all the time. So many brands are still caught in this mentality of using it as a platform to promote what they have for sale. Whether it’s a realtor being like open house house for sale, just listed coming soon. And that’s all they post or a retail store, but it’s like, you know, sale this weekend, look new product derived, Oh, look sale on this.

Jenn (24:35):

Oh look, we have this. Like whatever it is, businesses are trying too hard to push what’s for sale and not doing enough of the conversation. And they’re not doing enough of the value add for the consumer. So whether that’s entertainment, whether that’s behind the scenes, whether it’s education, whether it’s, you know, a tip or a resource, you know, give people a little DIY videos that help them. Like I, you know, I worked with a lot of realtors and they’re like, so tell them, you know, a great plumber in your neighborhood, give them a video on how to, you know, you know, functional way they’re living. I don’t care. Give them something that they can actually use and they will consume that content. And then they will actually see when you have a post to push a sale, but everyone’s not everyone, but so many people are still caught up in this yet. Like I have to post every single day and then post it at 9:00 AM and 4:00 PM. And like time of the day, does it matter? Algorithmically platforms don’t care any more about the time of the day, if someone logs in at 6:00 PM or 6:00 AM and you have new content that they want to see, they’re going to see. Yeah.

Jenn (25:43):

As long as they typically interact with your content time, update does matter.

Lynsey  (25:47):

I’m able to say to my clients, when humans are awake, that’s a good time to post just when humans are awake, whichever human you want to talk to when they’re up,

Jenn (25:59):

It doesn’t matter. Post it’s going to get shown to them that they typically interact with. And I think that’s something that from an algorithm perspective, you know, people really need to understand that if you’re posting all the time, your content is competing with itself. So your average audience isn’t necessarily logging on to Instagram every single day. They may not even be logging on to Facebook every single day. And so that was how GRA is have to sort all of that content from the last time they logged in to now. And if you’ve posted six pieces of content, the algorithm was not going to show them all six pieces of content. It’ll show them one or two. So your audience is now being selectively by platform, choose chosen what to see rather than them just seeing the content that you actually want them to see. So less content like better content, better serve your audience and really think about what your audience wants. Not just what you want to, you know, shut out there into the universe.

Lynsey  (27:00):

Yeah. Just because it matches the color on your grid. Doesn’t mean it’s a good piece of content just because you’ve made it a nice shade of pastel. Doesn’t mean it’s a good piece of content.

Jenn (27:10):

I would add a let’s start with the pastels.

Lynsey  (27:14):

I actually, there’s an episode on like on our podcast, which has just my rants about things that pissed me off about the industry. And it’s the fact that every fucking female entrepreneur Instagrammer has picked their shade of Postel and their fault. And every third or fourth post is a motivational quote in this pastel. And then it’s them standing, posing with a pineapple on their laptop. And I’m just like, can we, we’re supposed to be a creative industry. Can we not do something better than this? There were all sharing the same

Jenn (27:46):

Years ago. It was probably two or three years ago when this trend really started. And I had a blog reader. I can’t remember who it was, but I keep using her analogy. And she’s like, my Instagram feed looks like a Stepford white family. That was the best explanation was like, everyone was creating these cookie cutter perfection, you know, super, you know, like hostiles and super muted tones. And everything is like perfectly staged. And I was like, like, this is not appealing to me. I bred colors and bold and loud. Like I don’t care without these perfectly soft muted, tell them like, shut.

Lynsey  (28:23):

I don’t want to say another laptop. Flatlight with a coffee and flowers and some stage almost like nobody lives like that. You want to see my desk right now? It’s a shithouse. Okay. Nobody lives like that.

Jenn (28:34):

Yeah. I’m like, I’ve literally posted photos. And I’m like, if you zoom in, you can actually read my to do list paper all over my desk. I live for like the handwritten to do notes.

Lynsey  (28:46):

Look, I don’t know everything that’s sort of gone on. What do you think? You know, cause we’ve had, you know, all across the world, we’ve had businesses like cease operation. We’ve had huge restrictions on trading. We still have huge restrictions on movement and travel on these things. It’s and I don’t want, like, this is whole series. We’ve been really coasted, but we’re not making light of the global tragedy that we have all faced. But out of this, what do you think have been some real opportunities for businesses and for marketers?

Jenn (29:16):

Yeah. I mean, I think the first one is businesses having a true understanding of what they need to be in business. You know, we’re, we’re so programmed in our normal pre COVID world that I need this, I need a storefront. I need this many employees. I need this customer. I need this merchandise. I need office space or I need to be remote. We all had these objectives in our mind of what we needed to run a business. Colton taught us what we really need. And for some people that was different, they realized they didn’t need an office space and that they can work from home or they’ve realized, Nope, I’m going to kill my family. I really do.

Lynsey  (29:59):


Jenn (30:01):

But I think it’s really enabled businesses to see what they can and can’t do in the realm of what they have. And that they’ve been able to say, okay, as much as I thought I needed a retail space or as much as I thought I needed physical customers walking in the door, I’ve realized I can sell online. It takes some time. It takes a different, you know, a different strategy and a different approach, but I can sell online. Or I do have customers online that I didn’t know were there and I wasn’t giving them attention because I didn’t think they mattered. And now I realize they do matter. So I think it’s in all at all. I think it’s really going to give, I think the whole world in general, not just in business are really good understanding of what we need. We need grocery stores.

Jenn (30:43):

Okay. That’s an essential service call. Realize that like, those are the one things that didn’t close down, but do we really need a live event? Every court, we do a live event once a year and do the other three virtually, is that a solution that cuts back our budget expenses and allows us to have one big event rather than four mediocre events? Like where can we tend to challenge those budgets in those expectations and better serve our audience in the meantime? Cause yeah. Who doesn’t want to go to a live event right now who doesn’t want to get on a plane and go to another city and do something fun

Lynsey  (31:19):

Just anywhere. I just want to get on a plane, drop me back off. I’m fine with that. Just let me feel like I want to take my shoes off and put them on a belt. That’s what I’ve been doing. Watch them go through conveyor.

Jenn (31:34):

But as much as we want that, and as much as that is rewarding, I’ve been able to attend more events. I’ve had attend more attendees at events that would have been live would have only had a couple of hundred people live, but they ended up having 2000 people tune in because it went through a virtual event. So it’s really, I think for businesses, a challenge, but also in good challenge to really embrace and figure out how we can do more with the online space and yet really respect and value when we have those in-person opportunities, whether it’s a storefront, whether it’s a live event, whatever it is. Um, but yeah, I think, I think that’s really good for businesses to go through that. And I think all of that has tied into as well, you know, businesses having better online communities. I know so many businesses that were like, I don’t have time they’re online. I don’t have time for social media. My customer is not online

Lynsey  (32:27):

Well, yeah.

Jenn (32:31):

So I think that’s really helped with just really fostering those communities. People, you know, rejuvenating, Facebook groups, um, getting active on their social media platforms and engaging in the dialogues and conversations and being open and transparent, um, which comes down to a lot of things again, related to live video, but even just your post and being like, Hey, we’re struggling too. Or, you know, head I’m in yoga pants and no makeup today too. Like I it’s really allowed people to show that transparency and authenticity and connect with people in a way that is completely relatable,

Lynsey  (33:07):

Amazing app. And I would absolutely agree with that. I think businesses have now had this big wake up call one digital transformation of where they need to be or, and align and realizing, Oh, it’s not that scary. Oh yeah, I can’t do that. It is there, but also as well that, that streamlining of services or even adding new services into businesses, that they they’ve been forced to adapt the way that they do business and the number of them that have retained those services, even as restrictions, ease as, you know, bricks and mortar. And some of those things can open up to not let go of all of that stuff that they have actually created during those periods has been phenomenal. One piece of advice for marketers,

Jenn (33:47):

The rest, I want to say to really do use social media for conversation, um, and to embrace your brand voice and style in that conversation. So as much as it’s great to say, you know, here’s a strategy and here’s how to promote your products and here’s how to increase sales. And here’s how to create content that drives more engagement and all these things that we want to do really, especially right now, it’s about having conversations. It’s about these sorts of things. Like, I mean, every time I do a podcast, every time I do an interview, the first thing people say is how are you holding up? You know, how are things in your area? You know, whether it’s, you know, country, state, whatever people are asking. That’s the first question? How are you holding up?

Lynsey  (34:30):

Sorry, I don’t think I asked her, are you okay? How’s things holding up for you. I’m just here talking about shoes,

Jenn (34:38):

Never talking about shoes, but it is. I think that’s something that people really want to embrace. You know, right now, especially with businesses is having a real conversation and being okay with whatever that brand voice and style is. You know, I tell people all the time, you know, if you know me, you know, I’m in, you know, a dress or pencil skirt and you know, four inch stilettos, hello, this is me and this is what you’re going to get. But I’m also somebody who can speak very eloquently and professionally that I can be like her mama, ain’t got no time for that, please. And I will like drop into these weird kind of anecdote sometimes. And, but that’s who I am and I’ve embraced it. And people expect that. And as a brand now is the time to really embrace it. Authenticity how those conversations with your audience be there for them, let them know that, you know, you are online, that you are open, whatever it is. And don’t push so much, just be there as a sounding board in a conversation. And the sales will comments are results. Awesome. Jen, how people get in touch with

Lynsey  (35:38):

You work with you. We’re obviously we’re going to post all the details about the book and all these things coming out, but what can people do and how can they work?

Jenn (35:45):

Yeah, so I’m pretty much everywhere is Jen’s treads Jenn with two N’s. Cause I was born in the eighties of the bazillion little Jennifer’s it’s my little way of designating myself. So uniquely. So I’ve always been Jenn with two heads. Uh, so hit me up on Instagram, J E N N S underscore trends. Same thing on Twitter and the Facebook group, which is if you go to Facebook and search Jen’s trends in social media, you’ll see the Facebook group as well as the page. Uh, but the Facebook group is a super safe space where you can ask questions, have lots of input from people in the group. And it’s also where I share all breaking news related to Instagram. So when something new launches or updates are rolled out, the first place we always talk about it is in the Facebook group. And then I go and talk about it everywhere else. Uh, so if you want to stay up to date on things like reels or whatever they launch next week to be no, by all means, if you’re interested in having me on your podcast, if you want me to speak at your event for work with me, if you want me to train your team or anything like that, send me an email to Jen at Jen’s And let me know when we can talk more details that way.

Lynsey  (36:46):

Awesome. Jen, thank you so, so much for taking the time and just dropping some knowledge bombs out there for us. Um, we’ve really appreciated having you on the podcast as always guys, we’ll put all of those, um, contact details. Everything’s gonna be in the show notes and as always with any of our episodes questions, comments, and as a PM says the damn send us an email, reach out to us, let us know if there’s anything else you want to know about this episode. And I will be back. I can’t believe this series is nearly over. I will be back next week. Awesome guests. That’s okay. We’ve got an even bigger series plan for after this. It’s very exciting. Um, but I will be back next week with our final guest in the next chapter series. Um, and we’ll go from there. Awesome. And pause the recording or else Marvin.

agency support group
Want more ongoing support- join the AAAA